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well j3b, I try not to do that^^^ too often.

It is my belief that there is not usually a very good outcome after....

cheers

zig

so the last couple of days have been restful in a way - meaning that my mind is sooo much more at rest from this sitch.

I think the discussion about forgiveness really helped me a lot.

I was surprised yesterday to suddenly find myself thinking of h and GENUINELY wishing him well in whatever he does, without feeling The twinge of bittersweet pain i've always felt. until now, my compassionate thoughts towards h have been more acting as if in a slight way, but suddenly now it is different.

it's not to say that i haven't had my crying moments of wishing that we could work it out - i've had those too but they are now coated with some sort of reassurance that i'll be okay.

so interesting little thing with s this week. he insisted that we should go over to h's house so he could show it to me. i said no way at first and even went so far as to say, that is h's house and not mine and i don't feel comfortable join cover there when h is not there. he got very very upset.

that happened on tuesday and later that night i said to him that i was sorry - that he want to share something with me that was exciting for him, an di shouldn't have said no, and that we could go over later in the week (i did talk about tit with mil, and she pointed out to me that i was being rigid about the house, and could i see it from s's pov, that he could be terrified at the idea that i wouldn't be welcome in that house.

so we had decided we'd go this evening after his class.

right before i went to pick him up, h called. i knew he wanted to talk with me because he knew very well s wasn't here. my feeling was that he sort of wanted to check out where i was at.

after letting me know when he was due back (tomorrow night) , i suddenly decided to let him know about the conversation with s and that we were going to go over there. s had said somethings that were a bit odd.

i asked h if he was okay with us going over there, and he seemed to be. he was more concerned about how i felt about going over and asked me over and over if i was okay with it. i stayed really relaxed and said that i had accepted what was going on and that i had said that i would support both him and s in this decision.

he said several times that it felt odd to him and something about it being very uncomfortable - can't remember his exact words, but along the lines of this is very difficult.

i really kept the conversation as light as i could, and even managed a very very mild flirt - more in the way i was speaking and then ended the conversation. he did seem a bit nervous, but wasn't grumpy or spewy.

so we saw the house - and i could just see how much it was h's house - it's down to the beams and outer walls - but i could feel exactly what he loved about it and why he had chosen that house.

so h has a pretty nutty whacky side to him - and he had set up what we called the tajma tent (he named it for the taj mahal because it's so huge), in the back yard - and s was so excited about the crazy thing he had done: the nutcase has a real queen sized bed in there, with a lamp and a dresser and a television!! and that is so h, that i just had to laugh!!

after we came home, i was a bit sad, and had mixed feelings - but decided that instead of us just hanging out here we should get out of the house and do something. all our friends were busy, so i suggested s's most favorite thing to do - pick up sushi and go over to in-laws to swim. they were out for the evening but h's grand-parents were in and when we got there, instead of swimming the four of us watched the olympics opening ceremony all evening.

all of us had a wonderful time - i don't know why but it was magical - we were so happy together for hours - laughing and being so delighted with everything that was going on. of course the queen's antics just made me get high!! i was just riding on the sheer joy of watching an 82 yr old step out of a helicopter, and float down, least of all in a lacy peach dress!! 0h, THAT is going to keep me going for a long while!!

one of the things that i love and absolutely cherish is very old women NOT acting their age!!!

that's how i've always wanted to be and imagine i will be when i grow old - you know like in up on a ladder at 75, painting the house!!! or climbing a mountain when you're 80!!

i've always said to myself that i will still be throwing porcelain pots on the wheel when i'm 97 like Lucie Rie (a very famous potter from England) and i'm glad to think that i can go back to having that dream for myself again after these last few years.

so all in all - sort of a more peaceful day than ever, and i know i've rambled on for a bit here, but it's calm rambling... mil said tonight, let's see what happens when he gets back and for the first time i just calmly looked at her and said -probably nothing, why do you think anything will happen - and in that moment, i realized that for now, i'm really okay with that

zig

so one of the things that i am facing now, is a deep sense of loneliness - i've never felt it in this way before. i think i've always distracted myself form it, either by focusing on other things or people or ignoring and burying it in some way.

I'm sure I'm not the only one dealing with that here - and i wondered if anyone had thoughts on it and if we could have a discussion about it - not just how different people deal with it , but also about what the different perspectives are about why one should feel that way and where it's coming from.

what i feel for myself is that all my life i have possibly focused really intensively on external things to avoid that feeling. Now when i finally face myself, and suddenly i do find myself in the position that i've realized that it's just me, me alone that has to face all the parts of my life completely on my own, that no one can walk this part with me, that i have to do it on my own, that no one can really help me do it, and then this strange feeling of utter aloneness has arisen.

i can't say it is entirely negative - sometimes it feels like that for a bit, but most of the time i see it as this is where i am, this part of the journey i have to do on my own

any one else been through this or going through this right now?

zig

Always zig-I felt that way growing up ( I don't know why, but I had a very hard time feeling like I fit in anywhere--- it might have been because I was living in the states for awhile, then Egypt, then finally sudan), so a part of me has always felt a little like an outsider looking in.

And another part of that loneliness also stems from my own parents divorce. I again felt like something was missing from deep within me like I was always looking for something to fill that.

More recently, the loneliness stems from feeling left behind again, first by my dad and now by H. It sometimes makes me feel that I am not meant to walk with someone, but that I am meant to walk alone. With only me having my back.

I don't want this to sound like self pity, I am just trying to explain how and why I do feel lonelily. Sometimes I know I really am. I am alone in my house now without a friend or partner. I am alone making decisions for my children, I am alone in a country that is not mine.

But like you I work to accept that this is is my journey now. I wasn't alone for awhile, when things between H and I were better, and I have learned that in order to not be alone, I have my own work to do. I was obviously bad at relationships.

Zig,

Wow! Not sure why but I didn't expect a reply. Hmm, possible self defeating pattern here?

Girl I'm with you on the victim role, I so owned that!!! I posted my crazy accurate horoscope, but I want to paste some of the highlights that I think might help you with this...

"You need help, a way to move beyond or outside of yourself. You need to find a place upon which to stand and see what lies beyond your self-cast shadows, you need to leave this hall of mirrors that you made. So Mercury/Hermes, the Messenger of the Gods, he answers the call, he does his part. He turns around to stir The Waters...he breaks the surface stillness and shows you the refracted, mirrored world through which you move...Yes it was real for you, but limited, shadowed and bounded...bounded by you.

Hermes reveals other points of view, he shows you other prismatic perspectives, different pathways of perception...and you can move into a greater awareness, you may be able to consider the possibility of another way of understanding...and you will Grow. You are able to better comprehend the perspective of another...and your Compassion waxes so that you can draw closer to one another...You move along the pathway of Knowledge and approach the Halls of Wisdom...

More often than you might like to admit, you may fall into error because you have a point of view that you feel you must uphold and defend, (even if you have your own misgivings or doubts about it), you hold firm because to admit that you were incorrect or wrong would be embarrassing to you. So...you hold when you should yield, you dig in when you should give way and the pain you create is equal to the pain that you will face later on...for that is the law, that is Karma.

And it is this greater understanding, to love the other as oneself, which leads to the breaking down of your more limited views as you blend or incorporate a more inclusive view with and through the other, as they do likewise through you. For this is the truth of it, what stands before you is a spark of the Divine, the Self-Same source as your Divine Flame, and for this reason you are held together in the all-encompassing Love of this One Divine Spirit, forever and always...

Your answer is now...let go of Pride and Fear.

Your answer is within...listen to your Higher Self.

Your answer is LOVE...let it shine, let it shine...

See the shadows fade away...as you Shine!"

OK so drop all of the astrological aspects that are in there about Mercury,Hermes and karma and I think the heart of this speaks to dropping self limiting (victim) views, taking on a different perspective and then loving the other person through that new perspective. Deep stuff for an automated email!

And thank you for your kind words regarding my personal email to H.

<3

On to the subject of lonliness...

That is something I too have been facing. I have my girls every other week, which means that following every other weeks I am all alone. It's been like this for 7 months, but the lonliness just recently set in.

Anger is a great escape from reality. I was too busy walking around my home pissed at H, over any crazy reson to realise I was all alone! Sounds like crazy talk, but anger kept me company.

Then came the acceptance of reality, and I began to look in the mirror and the way I was living. So about 6 weeks ago I joined the YMCA where I take cardio kick boxing classes, zumba, swim...I love it. Still come home to a empty house, still pretend my pillow is a warm body, but at least anger moved out.

In a way I feel like that aspect of my life has been on hold, like I'm stuck in transition mode or something. I'm sure it's part of the process and that it will pass when it's meant to.

So nuggets of wisdom, just reassurance that you arent the only one who feels that way.

<3

thanks Busting for replying - we all carry so much pain within ourselves at such deep levels. when i try to really LOOK at that, removing myself from the picture, it is not so difficult then to see how the WAS's use their pain to propel them in the direction they are going in.

Then we have our own, and for a long while we use our pain to cling on, because we aren't ready either to start facing our own stuff. then comes the place where this happens for us:

I have learned that in order to not be alone, I have my own work to do

and then this

work to accept that this is is my journey now


and then we can face that lonliness that just maybe comes from the fear of not knowing?

that feeling of being left behind - i wonder if it is just a way for our minds to still cling in some little way. what is "behind" about the situation for us? to look at it in that way is so self-impeding, if one thinks about tit.

left behind, as if we are not capable of taking our own steps forward..

left behind, as if we were stopped in our tracks because of anothers' decision and actions..

I felt "left behind" for months, kept seeing him as really moving forward with his life - or it seemed that way to me, and it sort of freaked me out because i felt so paralyzed myself within , as if i couldn't take a step myself.

and then only just a while ago i found myself changing that attitude - and stopped keeping that picture in my mind. I started changing it more to us walking far apart, but both of us moving along, just not next to each other right now. and then a strange thing happened - i started to see how I was the one who was moving forward - at an incredible pace, and to me he seemed to be the one who was stuck and paralyzed .

so busting - i found that the picture i had in my mind's eye - could completely determine the direction of where i was going. changing it started to change the way i felt about the whole thing.

Wow, zig! The loneliness!

We can talk about it with each other but who can share that deep down feeling? I have glimpsed it a few times since H & my separation and it terrifies me. But I believe I will have to face it in order to heal -- with H or without H.

I looked out the window (we live in the country) at the setting moon a few nights ago. I asked myself who I really was in this big, big world. Was there a new place of peace for my heart instead of the wornout old places my heart used to find peace?

I didn't know the answer at that moment, but what I did know is that part of my journey will have to include finding peace. Which may or may not include loneliness at times.

And I do know that H & I will never have the R of our dreams unless I find an inner sense of peace and balance whether I am alone or not.



Absolutely love what you said here.

Sounds like zig is making some great progress.

isn't that how diamonds are created, surrounded by dirt and lots of pressure???

stronger - i need to feel like a diamond right now - things are just happening that i wasn't expecting.


i've been wanting to sit down and reply to you since this morning, but need to get a bunch of things done first. so just letting you know i'm not ignoring your post- just thinking about it

it will probably be later tonight when i get a chance

meanwhile - thank-you and i love your horoscope - where is that from? and what sign are you?

((( ))))
zig