Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Midlife Crisis So much to say, So little room

I hear ya. I had many of those same feelings. Once in a great while I still do. For a while, I felt like I wanted her to "see". To experience failure in her next marriage. Sometimes I struggled with wanting her to fail. Know what? With the passage of time, it all becomes much clearer.
I don't want those things for her. I want her to be happy, healthy and successful. Why? Because I saw the other side and I don't wish that on anyone.
I don't like her choices. I don't like the way the in-laws treat me. I don't like the way former friends look at me. But I realized that they don't know the whole story and they want what they want. I don't control that. I don't want to control that.

I want to be me. I want to be left alone and to get away from the craziness. I lived with her for a long time during this. The cheating, the lies, the rage, the blaming me, the telling me she never loved me, she wanted to date, etc. It all comes to an end and means nothing. Really.

What matters is the example you set for the kids. They'll remember every piece of it. They'll remember how you treated them. How you rebuilt yourself once she left. How you treated her. Important and difficult things.

The bible talks about heaping coals on another's head. It's not worth it for that reason by itself. Rather, it's a by-product of doing what you know is right for your kids and yourself and even your W.

In time, it all comes out, like it or not. Might be many years, but it will come out.

You've figured out to let her go. You're in the waiting game now, but even that will pass. Never soon enough, but if you let it, it will pass before you know it. I've been through similar and didn't like hearing that at the time. I come back here mostly to try and help. To let people know there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Your W may never figure it out. Everyone else around her will whether they tell you or not. Let them figure out what they are going to believe, do, say etc. and worry about what you can control. The rest is time wasted.

I'm good friends with most of my ex's family. Just not my in-laws. I don't want to be though. They can't cope very well and I in no way am in a position to want to help them with that. They didn't ask

Separation is not easy for the kids. Especially with the circumstances the way they are. The best you can do for them is be friendly with their mom. They're smart and will figure out what they want to do. You won't always like it, but keep your head and they'll come around when they get it out of their system. I've seen it many times with many friends and my own kids. You are their father and will always be there for them. Remember that and live up to it. One parent must at least, right?
You have the resolve. You have the moxy. You have all the power. You know that, but don't want to use it, right? I think that is the most powerful statement about you actually. To have that kind of resolve is very powerful and a testament to the kind of person you really are.

Let her go find out. Wish her well. For your sake as much as everyone else's. Let the rest sort itself out, because it will in its own time regardless of what you do to help it along

AJ

BM - You've been living together for 7 years?! Yowsers! I know there's no time limit on these things, but as much as they are itching to leave, what could possibly make him want to stay so long?

My wife wants out really bad, but even with child support, her life is not what she's been living. I'm pretty certain that's on her mind and I know she's sought legal counsel two years back so I'm sure she knows there's even less child support money when the kids would be co-habitating. She's not ruthless towards me and insists she wouldn't pull for full custody. My kids are too attached to me and she knows that. Realistically she can't support the kids schedules either. I have the good fortune of having very flexible hours and can work from the house when need be so I'm able to adjust to the kids school and activities. All that goes away for both of us if I've got weekends only.......

This whole thing is so grey. I was talking via email to another woman ( I know, I know, EA of my own maybe? ) who I knew nothing about other than her name and that she lived several states away from me, but she was having very similar issues as my wife. We talked through our frustrations and looked for understanding. She hated her husband and hated being mean and she couldn't understand why he wouldn't just give up. After about 3 months of emails, her husband went in and saw she was talking to me and accused her of having an affair. I told her I'd respect their privacy and haven't spoken to her since. Was it appropriate? No. Did I think I was helping? Yes. Was I? Probably not. It would have been helping had she told her husband about me and why she's talking to me - before he invaded her privacy. I shouldn't have to say that I had/have no interest in meeting her or speaking to her on the phone and that I've had no desire to email her since I said I wouldn't.

Anyway, with that said, she said something to me that I think is the whole reason I still can't give in just yet. I told her the things my wife said when we talked. I told her about how my wife resents me, my trying to make things work frustrates her, her feeling stuck, the determination to leave because that's the only thing she's sure is the answer for making her feel better. The lady I was talking to said that she said all of the same things, that she often still feels that way and that she knew she said them at the time because that really how she felt. But each day was different and even though she still feels that way much of the time, she finds that some days she's more grounded and knows she's being rash.

I'm not holding out for my wife to stay, but I can't help but hold on to the thought that maybe she will not move out. I don't hold onto that very tightly at all, but it's still a thought. It's for the kids. Personally, I want her out if she wants no part of us, I hate being treated like an eye sore. It's the kids though. They don't like the current situation, but I don't want to make it worse by forcing them to live under 2 separate roofs. I guess I feel like I can protect them better if they can see that their mom and I 'can' work together.

My W could have/probably did say/feel that a few months ago with her cyber "friends"...she appears to be in a completely different place now (maybe even accepting that she isn't "getting younger", big issue with her)...so you can't know where this will end up.



Ok, that is step 1...let's say she doesn't move out, then what? My W tried the "stay married but have our own separate relationships outside the marriage" thing...that wasn't acceptable to me. I focus(ed) on step 1, but envision(ed) step 2, 3, 4, etc...I stayed for the kids, my love for her AND because somewhere inside I didn't buy it that we, as a loving couple, were done. What is your most desired outcome if you could determine it?

What does your gut/intuition say, once you quiet your mind/ego?



I have read that through our M, we "train" our spouse and kids how to react to us, so maybe there is a history of expected behavior from you...that is something I really had to look in the mirror about....I "thought" I was one way, but my kids and W really know me and my SUB-conscious clues. For me, it ended up that I was still sending off mad/frustrated/hurt vibes that they had no trouble picking up on, ESPECIALLY W...as much as she "hated" me, was "done" with me and us, she was really well tuned into me, all the time, she even called me on my faking it. Therefore it was "more of the same old" from T^2, I really hadn't changed or "got it"...

Once I truly started detaching/letting go, truly started letting her cyber/RL affairs go and run their course (and they did), I changed for real, and the kids and W changed how they interacted and responded to me. I also learned that when I wasn't doing too well with detachment, I either went as dim as possible and/or just straight up told her..."W, I am not doing well with detaching today, just thought I would let you know in case I seem distant or whatever...". Just a thought.

You have as much stamina/resolve/etc as you choose, sometimes you have to choose it hourly, daily, etc.

Just my thoughts, YMMV...



T^2

T^2 - How incredibly perceptive of you. Spot on in so many ways.

For starters, the Step 1 stuff. I'm not sure I'm following what exactly you mean, but I identify with your reasons for staying and I too, am not open to outside relationships.

You brought up an interesting point regarding what my gut says. It's telling me to not give up. I pray every day for the courage to keep pushing myself forward and the strength to forgive. I kind of just gave up and told the Big Guy/Gal upstairs that I was done and would just let it all go let Him/Her take over. All the fussing between my heart and my mind seem to be more in line with each other now vs. a year ago. Both are telling me to sit and wait.

I've had people tell me to get away from her. I've had people tell me to call her out and tell her to put up or shut up. I've had people tell me she's had/having an affair. I've had people advise me to seek legal counsel.

My gut says that none of those options/opinions are right. My gut tells me that my W doesn't want me to abandon her. Almost like a teenager on the edge of falling in with a bad crowd.

No matter how rough it can be or what she says to me about how she feels about me, I just sit back and trust the Big Guy/Gal will make certain that no matter what happens, what will be will be. Not knowing what to do at times and not putting much thought into things, I've found that my W approves of greatly even if she won't allow herself to tell me so. I chalk most of that up to how she believes I'm only doing things to win her back.

My gut makes me want to cry because it won't let me give up on her even during the hardest of times. I feel like a fool for saying that in these forums because I've read some stuff regarding some nasty mlc-ers and I should count my blessings my W doesn't crap on me like so many others do.

You're also right on the last part. The long/short of it all is that I found out after 38 years that I have ADD with a dash of anxiety. I really had no idea. My mind is always off on an adventure and my W always thought I was angry because I was frowning. All this time it was me concentrating and trying to slow my brain. I've always leaned towards being rather creative and the good news is I haven't lost too much of that with the meds I take.

Anywho, the short of it is I've never cursed at my W, physically harmed her, called her names or stepped out on her, but at times I did have a short fuse that surfaced after I started working where I currently work. The stress involved with my job was coming home to roost and I was not fair to her or my kids.

The part of this who experience that I'm thankful for is that I've learned so much self control. Even without meds, I don't get easily aggitated ( see above comments regarding the Big Guy/Gal ) and I've learned about love, partnership, fatherhood and responsibility. My work is still very demanding, but I'm much more capable of taking it in stride and slowing it down.

So yes, when things were all about me and what I wanted, I was very capable of sparking up when I wasn't getting my way. This hasn't been the case at all for over a year now at the very least. I know now, that for the first year of my wife's adventure, I was very bad about keeping my sadness and hurt from showing. It was when I realized my kids were reacting to me reacting to my W's behavior that I knew I had been all wrong.

It's been a long battle, but I fight everyday to show nothing but peace and project confidence or indifference.

Where I am now, T^2, and were I don't want to be, is "dim as possible". I don't like being so distant to my wife this past month, but my gut also tells me that if she does move out, I'm going to be the one that pushes her to do it if I take a wrong step.

I like how you're able to speak to your W about "having trouble detaching today", but I don't have that kind of dialog right now. My gut tells me it's not the best approach for me, that she just wants me to leave her alone to sort herself out.

So I wait, and I wait, and I wait. Kids are out of school. 3 months for her to make a move when it's easiest for the kids to get into the transition. After 3 months....? It's all a coin flip at this point.

Just a quick reply, more later or tomorrow.

Step 1 = W not moving out
Step 2 = slowly re-connecting/piecing, etc

and so forth...

What is your best of all possible outcomes, for you?
Then, how do you get there? How do you measure progress? How do you show you're the kind of person only a fool would leave?
What is your (very flexible) plan?



I didn't either, but I did it anyway...it showed confidence to be honest and forthcoming with feelings...one of those 180's for me, being open with feelings. W has verified recently that it was a positive, though she didn't like it at first...

oh, btw, I also read that women tend to need a lot more time to believe changes are real than men typically do...so when you and I are thinking "see, its been months, they are real"...they might be thinking "hmm....not sure yet"...learning this helped a lot with the patience that I so needed.



T^2

I agree. I also think it has something to do with the ammount of time it took them to reach a decision....months...years...

And once that decision is made? A hard one? once committed to it, it is har to go back on it.

Agreed. But this I can only imagine (not really) how hard that is. Been there. Done that.

Know what? You can't control the outcome. The anxiety of trying that is showing.

But I get it. I really do.

Peace,
AJ

OH MAN, do I know THAT one...I have emails between W and I to remind me of what a grumpy a-hole I had become...I want to crawl into a hole when I think of it...it embarrasses me that I let work morph me into that. i do see work related issues crop up all the time with men's contribution to the M decline, and/or the start of their mlc. As fathers, I think we need to help our kids get life priorities straight...humans are more than their jobs, and if work messes with home life, then we need to re-evaluate our premises.

I did want to bring up that until your W's EA/PA is over, you will not be able to work on the R directly. They just feed each other their justifications and misery, as was posted earlier, and your W will not work on the R, or truly see you, until that falls apart.

I have read that fact just about everywhere, and my own sitch bears the truth of that. My W has had, best I can tell from behavior, at least 3 cyber/phone/RL/whatever "soulmates"...heck, even just a few months ago in March she said that "if she was going to be true to herself, she wasn't sure if she could be my friend ever again"...lol...wtf is THAT supposed to mean?

Anyway, this last "soulmate" feel through, and I think in a big way (my gut tells me he was a predator creep, but I will not know for sure for a long time, if ever...), because W had an 145 degree change and actually started "seeing" me and my changes. So, hate to say it, but until the EA is resolved, you can only work on YOU and the kids.

One thing that I found the works for me to get me through the daily frustrations and all is for me to set "check-in" dates (every 3 months), where I step back and REALLY get deep and truthy with myself if I want to continue to DB, or be done done.

Once I decide, I do not worry about (or try not too...lol) making "that" decision until the next check-in date, so many times I have said to myself "I am not quitting until the next check-in, so I can put up with this until then"...keeps me and my effort/energy in the present moment and what I can actually do NOW...its a plan and sticking to it has helped take the stress off a bit...

ooops...hit submit too soon...

Back to this:



Go with your gut if you are sure your ego is out of the way, because that is when we are guided by God or Spirit or... That was the case for me when I finally opened the cage door for my W and said "Then. Leave." after being threatened with that by her so many times.

That is a benefit of this awful LBS process...you finally get to get in touch with yourself, your spirituality, your "true self".

Just my thoughts...



T^2

Yes, there is the waiting, BUT...you have 3 months to DO things with the kids...take them camping or something every weekend w/o W, even leave Fridays, give W all the time she thinks she needs, w/o the "hassle" of you and the kids around. Leave her with just herself as much as possible, she will not (maybe) be able to justify as much that you are the cause of her unhappiness if you are not around, building memories with the kids, without her. It will take pressure off, and could make you look good (based on what WAW have said here, and my own experience), being so involved with the kids

Hard as it may seem to do, making it easier for her EA (you and the kids gone weekends or whenever) might just give it enough rope to show its reality, it's true colors...or not, and she might decide...

Either way:

-You spend time, good, memory-building time with your kids, giving them a break from the sitch as well as yourself.
-You give W space, doing everything you can.
-You follow YOUR plan (W will make her decisions, and be responsible for them, etc).
-YOU will also get out of your own way (I needed to do this A LOT).
etc

something to chew over...

Have a great weekend!

T^2