These are good starts! Backing off asap is critical, imo.
-What are you doing to GAL, specifically? -Your acts of service, do you initiate? Do you make sure you don't go "too" far out of your way to do them (could be seen as the "pursuing doormat" (and yes, I was one a few times, W saw right thru it...))? -What are you doing for yourself spiritually (prayer, meditation, etc)?
Have you made a list of all of your W's issues with your marriage and you, thought through each issue, compared it to the man in the mirror, and with your true self and decided what YOU want to change? What are those things? What are YOU going to do about them?
What non-W, non-R related GOOD thing can you find about today?
Yes, I am trying to draw YOU out and see who this Hopefull2 person is... T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Cadet, I have re-looked and no I cannot find your links. Please send me a link. Thanks
Forward, thanks for the encouragement. As T^2 told me before i need to quiet the many voices in my head that keep pulling me in so many different directions. That is one of the reasons i "needed" to post here. To help keep my focus and goals. My W in my opinion is really trying to deal with her MLC in a constructive way at this point, but there is lots going on that she is going to have to deal with.
T^2, I will take more time later to sort out all of your questions. Communication is not my strength so i do appreciate your proding. Wife has same issue, not necessarily the best mix... To be honest i really cannot say what all of my Wifes issues really are. Do I have that discussion with her at this point?? I do know that over the last five years i have been very withdrawn from her and when i did drink i would tell her that i did not love her and that she should just leave. In my heart that was not true but i know my words hurt her very much. These words were coming from my not dealing with her continuing to have a friendship with the OM. I am a Christian and i do not condone my drinking to the excess that i was. It often was triggered by group activities that included the OM. Still no excuse. As far as my spirituallity this has definitely brought me to my knees. I have been pouring my heart out in prayer and trying to not be focused just on my situation but to get back to thinking of the many others around me that need prayers including my wife and friends fighting cancer (perspective...).
Again, let me put some more thought into your questions.
thanks all for the responses.
I would rather feel pain then never feel at all... Separated 3/2012 T 34 yrs M 27 yrs
Take the parts you need and don't worry about the rest. This is my welcome POST for MLC.
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD, Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read. This is my ultra brand new and improved list of links.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
The stages of MLC as rewritten by HB from Jim Conway are a template which can only be laid over an MLCer's experience retrospectively. It's impossible to see the pattern until it has finished being laid or the crisis is complete.(nickel Cyrena). So do not be too concerned where your MLC'er is in this process. (Although my general guess is that they are in REPLAY)
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he says and 50% of what he does.
I would not ask him anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
To be honest i really cannot say what all of my Wifes issues really are. Do I have that discussion with her at this point??
Are you sure you don't know a lot of them already? You know three: -withdrawn -not very communicative -things said while drinking
Maybe add holding EA over her head or something like that?
When I asked for that list during a discussion (and I wrote them down as she rattled them off) I wasn't actually too surprised at most of them, once I did some self-reflection, sorta like I knew deep down where I wasn't measuring up, but was repressing/rationalizing. But yes, there were some surprises...There was also a look of relief after she was done btw...all the things she didn't/couldn't say, OR, that I wasn't "hearing" for so long, so maybe it was cathartic for her.
As to whether ask for it now? You know your W...but could it hurt? You have shared experiences with kids/grandkids/etc where you will need to interact for years to come, so there is your "reason" if she asks...you want better interactions going forward for the kids and grandkids sake, or something like that...
It really helps to open yourself up and go through the self-reflection processes by posting here, imo.
A couple books I recommend, in addition to the DB books, are what women want men to know (lots of eye-openers here...thanks Kimmerz!), it will help in your next R, which hopefully will be with your W. And if the A is still twisting you up, google break free from the affair, its an ebook. I talked about it in my original thread, gives reasons, logic, perspective and action items.
Hang in there! T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
T2, as far as GAL i have been doing a fair bit. I have focussed a lot of time enjoying time with my kids and my G-kids. Doing different outings, zoo, boating, dinner. Been doing some motorcycle touring with old friends, joined the riding group at church and am meeting some new friends. Went camping and have joined a softball league. Been trying to golf with old friends and ones that I have never golfed with before. I have been doing daily walks, praying and meditating on where I am at and things I need to stay focused on. So IMO, having a life is not a problem.
So in my attempt to find out what other issues my W has with us i wrote her a letter asking what she believed our major issues are. I asked in the light that I am trying to focus on things i need to change. Well, be careful what you ask for. She brought up two issues from just the last few weeks and is putting together a diary of our past and is trying to identify where things began to go bad. T2, from a post you had it sounded like some good came out of this for your W, in that she felt some reliefe in getting things off her chest. I am a bit nervous whether going this path of rehashing the past is healthy? I welcome the opportunity to see and learn things that i need to see and identify areas that i truly need to change, but is this exercice healthy for her? Am i setting myself up for a spew of how bad things have been and it just reinforces all her negative thoughts of me. Need some thoughts on this one, guess I am looking for reassurance? Is this type of reevaluation part of a healthy healing process?
One of the issues she brought up from recently hit he square. She had asked in a text if I would buy her a new couch for her condo. You have to understand we had never bought "new" furniture in our life, always decent used. She has done an outstanding job decorating her condo and has bought many new pieces of furniture and has made her place look like a show home, yes I am a bit jealous, looks that good. I told her that I would not. In hindsight, I missed a great opportunity to make a positive love bank deposit! Even though money is somewhat tight I could have done this.... Instead it has turned out to be a huge withdrawal. Because I told her I could not afford it right now, which is true, I shouldn't be spending money frivolously, but yet I have spent money on things like camping trips, golfing, bought a used car several months ago (she has our old one and I hate driving my truck around town), and recently planned a vacation trip with my parents to Vegas. So her point is well taken, I can do all these things and yet I couldn't spend a few hundred dollars on her! I will learn from this.... I hope to meet with her and ask her if she will allow me to learn a valuable lesson and let me buy her the couch.
So she stated again that she would rather be my best friend than to be my unhappy wife. I can't disagree with that but I still do not want to give up the hope of what we once had. And I know it must start with rebuilding the friendship.
I would rather feel pain then never feel at all... Separated 3/2012 T 34 yrs M 27 yrs
I hope to meet with her and ask her if she will allow me to learn a valuable lesson and let me buy her the couch.
The bolded above sounds doormat-ish and she might think you are just doing it to try to get her back (in my opinion). She won't see it a change, just a tactic.
I would say: "Ya know W, I have been thinking about this couch situation, you are right and I have changed my mind, let's go find a couch". This sounds more confident (a confident man CAN change his mind when someone gives them new information)...Act/Think as if you are buying one of your kids a couch for their apartment or dorm room...hold your emotions...our spouses know us SO WELL...they can sense things verbally/ visually/etc that we don't "think" we are showing (oh, and the reverse works for us as well...tune into her)...really get into a detached space when you do this.
Quote:
I welcome the opportunity to see and learn things that i need to see and identify areas that i truly need to change, but is this exercice healthy for her?
She already done this^^^ exercise many times to get where she is at.
You have nothing to lose, at least you will have it from the source in her own words. And if she is in MLC and the alien spew monster shows up, you will hear it all again, and differently, and that the changes you made are not the ones she wanted, and so forth. Hopefully you won't get that, but be prepared for it and just validate without taking blame.
If you get the response, just say thanks and put it away without reading it. Have you read and memorized Sandi2's 37 rules? Do it now, do it again.
Stop trying to control the outcome!!!
You can't.
Quote:
I still do not want to give up the hope of what we once had.
You can't have that. There is no going back, your old M is done...and as you walk this path, you will view things differently as you change, and will see that you really do want a new, improved M, not the old one you had...be open to it, allow you to change.
This is about YOU becoming the man you want to be for YOU, your kids and gkids, that only a fool would leave, and MAYBE W will like that man and want to be married to him...that part is up to God
Quote:
rebuilding the friendship
Yes, but don't push it right now, BACK OFF!!!
You know your sitch and W best. For me, when I truly backed-off, gave TONS of space, learned the art of silence (or, STFU) and engaged listening, and stopped trying to control the outcome, all of which helped my finally get the detachment thingy functional, then things started changing in both phases of my W's mlc ...
Hope this helps some...
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
One other thing...I have read (and my W proves it to me) that women take a lot longer to believe a change is real (rather than just a tactic) than men do...so something that you believe is real say within a month, your W might not believe is real until 6 months...just a heads up...
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Thanks T2, I do need to "Back Off" and I do believe it is the only approach that I have. I have mentioned several times to her in emails that i am not willing to "give up hope on us". I need to back away from that, she know that is what i feel i do not need to re-iterate that (convincing myself...). I strugle with defining what friendship really is but i do know that it does not need to be pushed, and if that is all we end up with it will happen over time. I have re-read the 37 rules, always a good reminder. Each time i read them i find one that needs emphasis at the time, today was "listen carefully".
Cadet, I have made it through most of the posts you recomended. Thanks. Much to think through and lots to put in the back of the mind for later. The "Why They Run" post from Snodderly still hits home for me. It has helped me to empathize and truly accept the pain (and inner turmoil) that she is in. I question if she will ever make it through without professional input. I believe she is a survivor and is doing what she must to survive but that is different than truly dealing with it. I think often of a post i read talking about "unconditional love", and the willingness to let go and let them live for their benefit, the words ring true but the practicallity of it is much harder.
thanks again all, much gratitude for this site, provides some peace during these times of change.
I would rather feel pain then never feel at all... Separated 3/2012 T 34 yrs M 27 yrs
