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Thank you nhmom and 25! I appreciate you taking the time to read and feedback.

Nhmom, your list of suggestions is spot on. When I knew she was hurting I went into I want to help/pursuit mode which is not uncommon. I have failed at this time and time again.

25, I appreciate the 2x4's. I am not angry at my wife. I am angry at her choices, specifically if she is continuing to see her affair partner. That's her choice to make, but that doesn't make it right. I guess that's the root of the joke, disguised anger maybe my intent was just to be silly nothing more. I haven't been angry toward her in any way in months. On a side note, I didn't ask her for a check, that's how she opened the communication.

She had the hysterectomy because she had ovarian cysts. We had discussed this previously so I knew it was a possibility, her mom and sister had to have it done also.

So 25, what I don't understand is this... Basically I have to be all or nothing, what are my other options? I can't do anything to show her any changes because we don't see each other or rarely talk. When she is having a tough time I offer to help and do the right thing. Of course I want to see her, but my offer to help her or do anything for her are for HER and not for me. Hence my constant disclaimer no us talk. I know that I make emotional statements during our communications, when I don't talk to her for weeks at a time it's hard not to do that.

I'm doing everything I can to show changes. I'm giving her the space that she wanted, I'm showing support my stepkids even though I don't see them. I am nice to her all the time aside from my pursuit slips that are driven by my love for her. What else can I/am I supposed to do?

To thwart the dark or nothing situation I texted her "how are you doing" and she responded "I'm good" I said "I'm glad to hear it. Get yourself some good rest tonight. If you need anything let me know."

It's so incredibly frustrating because there is nothing else I can do... I don't know what to do, except to go dark or give up. I am welcoming 2x4's and any other suggestions. The best I have come up with is to go dark/do nothing because that's what's supposed to work, although nothing at all seems to be working for me.

Maybe u should get a hysterectomy. Oh wait Lorena Bobbit would be your surgeon. Never mind.

Lol Rick, that's what I'm talking about, that's my kind of humor! :-)

Realistically the Lorena Bobbit treatment would probably help, if I hadn't thought with that brain so much historically I wouldn't be in this situation to begin with... I'd be retired playing golf 7 days a week in my sexless first marriage lol.

Hi 25, I was pushed for time on my last reply so I wanted to elaborate on some of your points. Note I am not trying to argue or defend myself in any way here.

I agree I still have work to do on myself, that will be a continual exercise. I am sober, have 8 DV/anger management sessions left (instructor says I am making great progress), and read a lot. Work and GAL keep me extremely busy so I have little idle time.

Regarding anger, I haven’t projected any anger toward my wife in recent months, I think the last time I lost my cool during a conversation with her was in March. Since then I have been nothing but upbeat and positive toward her, minus my unwanted pursuit attempts I guess. I dislike many of her choices, but can’t say I’m angry about them, since I know I have no control over them in any way. She may or may not be seeing the OM at this point, perhaps she is still talking to/getting emotional support from him at this point, but I doubt she is seeing him since she’s recovering, not that any of that matters.

I am trying to show “love” for her the only ways I can at this point. By being there when she reaches out to me. By offering my support in any way that’s it’s needed, and by investing in my stepkids future to show my concern/love for them since I can’t spend time with her. I understand the opinions that the joke was in bad taste. I’m obviously frustrated, I didn’t mean any malice toward my wife. If I could take all her pain away I would do it in a second. The love that I am trying to show is for her, not for me. I guess my actions are selfish since I am effectively forcing myself on her since she wants nothing to do with me. I don’t understand how I can show her love by doing anything else but trying to help her.

Point taken on having the requests, that’s why I have been trying to be dark. I haven’t been trying to steer her behavior, aside from my pursuit. She offered up the info about the OM, I didn’t ask.

You say “Going dark IS better than pressuring her the way you do, but it's too bad you see no other options. I think that's the main overrall problem.

Then what are my other options? If I initiate communication I am persuing. If I try to do anything nice I’m persuing. What other choice to I have but to go dark?

There is no way that she can see I am really different, because I haven’t seen her since February and we barely speak. What I am DOING that is so different is giving her the space she wanted, showing unconditional love the only ways I know how given the situation I’m in. What I am DOING that she doesn’t see is being sober, not fraternizing with other women, and working on not being a self centered prick. I know I will never speak with any woman in any way other than kind ever again. But she doesn’t have any evidence of any of this because WE DON”T COMMUNICATE.

I don’t see how I’m glossing over my cheating. It happened. After we got engaged I was nothing but faithful to my wife. I told her I ended things and am not seeing anybody, don’t see that that matters to her.

I will further explore the co-dependent road. I realize that we can be “happy” without a member of the opposite sex in our lives. We also could be “happy” without ice cream, movies, days at the park the list goes on and on. Every man is dependent on a woman to fulfill his sexual desires. This is not something you can do for yourself without taking matters into your own hands if you will. I am a very sexual person, always have been always will be. To be quite honest there are number of things about trying to keep a woman happy that I don’t miss, sex certainly is not one of those things.

So yes I have a tendency to go from one female relationship to another, primarily for this reason, which I have broken that cycle at this point.

So I am still working on me and will continue to do so. I am “happy” but I would be “happier” if I was not sleeping alone tonight.

On your other points regarding the hysterectomy, from what I read that will wreak havoc on her hormones and thoughts and feelings. That is why I say it is going to make things harder for me. Not for me directly, but for me to make any headway in my sitch. My thoughts on visiting her were to try and help her out and make things better for her as I could, what else am I supposed to do or could I offer? Seeing her would be a byproduct of that but was not why I asked to see her. I am a white knight/broken bird syndrome by nature, I wanted to help her.

I answered some of the other questions in prior post in that the procedure was not a surprise it was expected because of ovarian cysts/endometriosis.

I don’t have any expectations of the love I’m giving. All roads point toward we will be getting divorced. That is what I expect. I am giving love to her and my stepkids in the only way I know how.

Like I’ve said in the past the way I communicate can be taken the wrong way sometimes. All of my actions in this are sincere, my goal since this all started has been to try and reconcile my M. I have taken many wrong turns obviously. I thought things were going to take a significant turn when she reached out to me about her sister. I was wrong, I think that was just her doing a touch and go.

I hate that she is going through this, she may or may not be going through it alone I honestly don’t know. What I do know is that I don’t know where to go or what to do from here.

I sent her get well flowers today because I did the same for her sister when she was in the hospital. The card simply said “I’ve been thinking about and praying for you and hope you feel better soon. If there is anything you need or that I can do for you just say the word”. In my book that’s being a decent human being, not pursuit so hopefully that is ok.

I guess my strategy will be to go dark, but check in once in a while to see how she’s doing or if she needs anything. Like I said I don’t know what else to do and welcome any suggestions you guys may have.

Thanks again for your feedback and good luck to all in your respective sitch’s!

Right before you took a break from the board the last time people were commenting about what they saw as your anger towards woman.

I'm not going to go into all of it...for whatever reason I sometimes think you and I are alike. or at least how I WAS! haha. With the pursuing, the controlling, and the need for outside attention.

It can be different than the all or nothing. If she isn't reconciling with you then you can't run away if you want to be with her. This isn't a John Cusack film. No one is going to run through the rain and pound on your door at 2 in the morning and say they can't live without you. (BTW if they do, please tell them everyone in Crazytown is worried sick would they please return)

She believes that if she isn't doing EXACTLY what you want, when you want, and how you want, then you'll probably be mean or distant. What if instead in whatever little communication you had with her you showed her that you could be completely unselfish and only happy for her, only think of her, and validate her decisions.

In other news it is really upsetting to me that she had a medical procedure and all you can think of is how this could sort of make her irrational or something because of hormones and depression. What if the person in the picture was your mom? I mean I'm trying to think of another woman you respect but maybe you don't. All I know is that it would be last thing on my mind.

My only suggestion is this.

Stop trying to show her that you love her. You are taking an action meant for HER and making it about YOU.

The main difference between conditional and unconditional love is that unconditional love is without expectation, without wanting praise or notice.

It's some you just do. It's a choice you make.

So...What would unconditional love for your w look like?

Thanks Brit and Valeska, I appreciate your feedback!

Brit,

I really don't think I'm angry, not toward my wife or anyone at this point really. Not even the OM, when it started out he was trying to get some loving just like any other guy. If it wasn't him would've been some other bloke I guess.

I wish I was more like you because you're one of the folks out here who seems to "get it", unlike myself...

I see your point, I am going to try to show concern with no agenda. For example just texted her saying "Hope you are feeling better, how are you and <sister> doing?" No response but I showed genuine concern without pursuit hopefully. I see your point that I can't just "run away", but that flies in the face of LRT/going dark which is where I seemingly need to be.

I hope she doesn't feel that way, as I haven't said anything remotely non-nice since March, which was the last time I got spun up when we were talking. I'm going to take your advice going forward. Don't think I'll be able to validate anything related to the OM though, that would certainly come off as fake without question. If she is still involved with OM on 8/27, she will have a divorce decree with my signature on it to execute, that is my final boundary. Nothing mean about it, I fully expect this to happen at this point.

On your last point, that certainly isn't my primary concern. I can't do anything about how she is feeling or her recovery since she wants nothing to do with me. My point is, that this new scenario in my sitch is not going to help, it is only going to throw further variables in play and make things more difficult as related to my reconciliation hopes. That is my point here. I empathize with her and wish there was something I could do to help, but I can't because she isn't interested in my help or compassion I guess.

Valeska, thank you also.

I am really trying to just do things for her, a byproduct of these however is that I somehow seem to have to be involved. I really don't have any expectations of anything that I do. The only logical expectation that I have is that I expect we will be getting divorced.

Unconditional Love for my wife to me would look like anything I can do to make her happy or her life easier. That is the type thing I have been doing. Unfortunately since we don't really communicate my only avenue to do that is to try and help her financially. I don't know what else to do.

On a side note, my considering filing on the eligible date was brought up as an idea by DB coach Cheryl whom I have spoken with 3 times. She had noted that if the sitch doesn't change that could be a final indicator of my ability/readiness to move on. I know that some people have carried on this battles for years and eventually reconciled. I also know some WAS/MLC have had to become divorced before seeing the light and wanting to work on things. Since "that" marriage is obviously over I am trying to look at the whole final divorce action as a paper exercise anyway, since that's all it is.

Thanks again for you guys feedback, I appreciate yours and any other opinions. Good luck to all in your respective sitch's!

You sending her the text is considered pursuing. With your question, you expect to start a conversation...you expect her to answer.

Let her initiate the contact.

Don't "show concern with no agenda".

You don't need to tell her every time that you hope she's taking her of herself or offer your assistance. Say it once and leave it at that. We get it that you're concerned about her well-being, and she knows as well. If she wants your help, she will reach out to you. Every time you reach out to her with an "innocent" text, it drives her further away from you.

Thanks nhmom! I can safely say that the recent dark streak were much easier than the last three days... Given that and the fact that she didn't respond today nor offer thanks (not that I was expecting or fishing for it) for the "get well" flowers gives credence to your assessment. Unfortunately my gut coupled with her actions makes me feel that it doesn't really matter what I do, that her mind is made up. This really feels like the hardest part of my sitch because I know she is hurting but there is nothing I can do to help. I should be used to it by now but I guess I'm not.

Thanks again for your feedback, I have a feeling a new no contact streak has been started by my W desire, we'll see what happens next...

Good luck to all in your respective sitch's!