Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Thread #7 - What goes down, might come up.

Hi Navyguy-

As I read through a some of your posts, the FB thing struck a cord with me. Before W and I got separated, she was on FB ALL THE TIME. I don’t know if it’s because I was insecure with myself, our marriage or both but I got so annoyed with my W and her FB addiction. Inappropriate comments, chat’s etc… I rarely called her out on them because I knew it usually wouldn’t do any good.
It was interesting though, when W decided to separate, she immediately deleted me as a FB friend, she also deleted a lot of our mutual friends. I was initially a bit taken back by it but looking back on it, it doesn’t bother me as much anymore. Maybe it’s the detaching thing and out of sight out of mind mentality. I know our sitch’s are different but just thought I would share. I believe you’re in the piecing phase? If so, congratulations! Hopefully I will get there.

Me(M):37
W:42
T: 14
M: 11
S: 8
D: 4
W wanted separation 5/5
Stopped living together 5/5

“Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude”.
Thomas Jefferson

Navy
Not to alarm you but this guy IS a threat to your R, but not in the way you think.

For all we know he may have good intentions, he's a threat because your W prefers to hang out with him than you. It's that simple.

Today he is fun.

Tomorrow he listens to her

The day after she is in love

Yes I do realize that with that attitude ANYONE is a threat, but see its not about them it's about you. Or rather about how she places you so low that anyone would make a better partner than you in her mind.

IMHO it's just more evidence she needs to go.

If it comes up just say:

"I can tell you prefer talking to a total stranger over me, I think it's just more proof that at this point we shouldn't be together"

Or

"I don't want to be with someone who treats a stranger better than her husband"

Or

"I can tell by how you treat others how much you dislike me, so it's better if we go our ways"

Either way his presence speaks volumes about her respect, and how much worth she assigns to you. Right now you are just in the way of her fun and happiness. If that's the case move out the way! Let's see if she gets what she wants

Well, things have gotten really rough again.

I feel like I did when W was with the kids in CO. Sick to my stomach.

This guy continues to Facebook stalk W. He "likes" every single thing she posts...even inside jokes that there's no way he knows about.

I confronted W on this 2 nights ago. I told her it is making me uncomfortable. This is a single guy who knows our marriage is on the rocks and is pursuing her. She says she has no intent of being anything more than friends with him and that he is cool and good to talk to. (how many times have I seen that on these boards?!?!??!!)

Here's our texting transcript from yesterday:

W started by accusing me of logging in to her FB account.

M: I have never been on your FB account...I swear on my life and everything important to me.  If someone else logged in, it wasn't me.  I believe you about this guy....I just think he has intentions to be more than friends and that makes me uncomfortable and threatened....but I know there's nothing I can do about that except tell you how it is making me feel, and that is what I did.

W: Well, I'm sorry you feel threatened. I have been trying really hard to keep you from feeling that way because I want you to be happy. It just feels like I afford you more respect and space than you have granted me. Messenger isn't working because I deactivated my account. I'm tired of being hassled about Facebook. If I have to miss out on my friends pictures and sharing in their lives to maintain some sanity with you than so be it. I'm sick and tired of drama. I can't handle anymore.

Then W deactivated her FB account. She had it back up about 2 hours later, after the rest of this chat.

M: I'm tired of drama too, and please trust me, I'm not trying to create it.  I was sitting at my desk at work shaking yesterday because of what I could see.  And thats why i got home early yesterday...my boss saw me and told me i needed to get out of here.  I realize me shaking seems like an overreaction and I know it was because if my insecurities with our situation, but what I saw was a guy who i was pretty sure knew our situation going after you, and that bothered me.  I wasn't seeking out any drama or trying to pick a fight...what I saw was upsetting me and I wanted to talk to you about it. I really do appreciate you wanting me to be happy, and I want the same for you.  There is no ill intent or alterior motive to my actions.  As I said last night, all I am trying to do is be a husband that is worth coming back to.  I know I have no control over whether you will ever want to do that or not.  Sometimes I find a glimmer of hope or a reason to think that might happen someday.  I know that is contrary to you having told me "we're done" and that you don't want to be married anymore.  I know it feels like an impossible situation for you.  On one hand, you don't want to be married and don't want to do anything that would make me feel otherwise, but on the other, we are still married and still living together and we have to co-exist somehow and things are just going to happen that give me hope that we can make things work.  I know you want me to give up on that, so you can be nice to me and not worry about how I'm interpreting everything you say or do.  I don't know if I'll ever be able to completely give up...even if we get divorced.  As i said, I think we have a nearly impossible problem here and I know the solution but for whatever reason (love, commitment, our kids, feeling that I owe you, to name a few) I refuse to accept that solution.  I don't know what can change that feeling inside me...and given what we've been through, I'm not sure that it will ever change. I think you'd agree that our marriage has been a struggle from almost the very beginning.   And we've been through so much more stress than most people go through in the beginning of their marriage....and I wasn't expecting that and obviously did not handle things even remotely close to the "right" way.   I failed in the worst possible way at the worst possible time. And for that I am and always will be truly sorry.  I do my best to control my feelings and not bring up things that will cause drama or cause you pain.  But there are times when I get overwhelmed by how I am feeling about something, and I don't think I can or necessarily should have to totally suppress those feelings.  Sometimes I am probably getting more spun up than I should about certain things.  I don't know.  But that's a part of me that I've worked on and don't think I can change entirely.  I need to be able to talk to people about things that are bothering me...otherwise they will consume me and I get to where I am no use to you, the kids, my work, and myself.

W: It kills me that you are attacking my friendships. My friends are the ones who helped me make it this far. I would have lost my mind a long time ago without them. This feels like another way to control me. Guy and Ohio Bff are friends that I feel close to. They are both kind genuine people who have been through the wringer themselves. They understand my feelings and manage to lift me up, not treat me like [censored]. They look out for me and just want me to be happy. Ohio BFF has always managed to make me laugh through the millions of tears I have shed and gives me the strength to go on. Guy, I have found, is the same as Ohio BFF. I have not gone crying to him, but during some bad days he managed to make me laugh and feel like life is not so bad. By attacking my relationships with those who are kind to me, you lower my view of you and make me that much happier to have them in my life. Your insecurities have been the wedge between us all these years...not my friends. While I do my best to avoid hurting you, it feels you manage new ways to hurt me. That's why I refuse to work on things with you. Nobody has hurt me as much as you have and it has never stopped. I would love to hang out with Guy. It would be great to get together with someone who understands me and doesnt hurt me. I am not looking for a relationship with him or anyone. I especially don't want to deal with the drama that would create nor has it crossed my mind. Relationships suck and im not anxious to jump into another one. I don't want to cut someone genuine out of my life that you think is interested in me and you are threatened by it. I have a say in my life. 

M: I am not attacking your friendships.  I understand and respect your need to have a life outside our home and marriage. What I said last night about Ohio BFF is that I feel that you have a bond with her that I wish we had with each other.  And that is hard for me to see and I am jealous of it at times.  I wish we could share things with each other.   I also said that i think she is a great friend and that i am glad she was there for you. I am not denying that I am insecure about Guy.  He knows our marriage is on the rocks and he is pursuing you, and i am not comfortable with that.  I understand he's a nice guy and that he's friendly and laid back and makes you feel better when you talk to him.  But you've met this guy twice, and his actions on FB clearly show his intentions.  It's not right for a guy to go through every picture on a married woman's page and like a bunch of them and even comment on pictures of her kids that he's never met.  I don't think you'd find a man anywhere that thinks what he is doing is ok. Even a man in an extremely healthy marriage would have issues with his actions.

I am not trying to hurt you, and I never have tried to.  Since I got back from Afghanistan, It seems like every time I hurt you it is when I am trying to talk to you about how I feel about something.  You've said it many times....we have reversed roles.  And I think the same exact thing is happening when I talk to you today as when you talked to me after D6 was born.  I didn't really listen to what you were saying, I got defensive, made you feel bad and wrong about your feelings, you'd feel guilty that you even brought it up and give in, I felt like the problem was solved, and you had to bury the problem again until you again reached a boiling point. Trust me, I now understand completely how it feels to be on your side when that happens. When I talk to you about something, it is a big deal for me, just like it used to be for you.  I don't take it lightly and I think hard and long about it before I do.  I am caring and genuine when I talk to you about things. The last thing I ever want to do is to hurt you, and I hope you know that. I know there has been a lot of drama lately and I wish more than anything that we weren't having to go through this...but the reason is there have been things (drinking, Guy) that I felt strongly enough about that i couldn't keep them inside.

I think I have said all I need to say about those things at this point. I am just as tired of the drama as you are and I am sorry for my contribution to it.  I have put in writing here how I feel and I will not bring them up again.

W did not reply.

When I got home from work, W was friendly. Not really what I expected.

Last night W was doing her usual sitting on the deck thing. I was exhausted from the night before. This morning I wake up to see 2 FB posts from W, one of which this guy could not have a clue what she was talking about. He liked both posts. Obviously W has not told him to back off.

I hate this. I am letting it eat me up. IC starts again this week. I think I am going to try to work on coming to grips that my M is over, and how to move on. That is what I need. I will not be with someone that hurts me like this.

Navy,

WAY too many words here, WAY too much drama. Somehow, you've got to get your arms around this, and stop coming off as needy/clingy/jealous/supplicating (huge turn-off, just ask the women here), and get to a point of "Hey babe, look -- you can be friends with whomever you want; I'm just saying that I've decided that I'm no longer willing to live in a marriage where my wife has inappropriate friendships with other men. Your choice completely -- I'll be fine either way."

sorta thing


Starsky

Agree with Starsky, my stomach felt sick reading your responses.

YOU NO LONGER OWE HER ANYTHING

She owes you EVERYTHING

This guy IS after your wife, and your actions keep making him look better and you worse. As far as you two are concerned she's 16 and dating a boy "daddy" doesn't approve of. The more you whine and complaint the more she will rebel.

She plays you like a fiddle blaming everything on you, and you keep falling for it. She will NEVER be nice to you because you give her no reason to.

Not only do you allow her to treat you like dirt, you apologize for getting her mad.

"I hit you because your actions made me do it!!"

Now replace hit with "yell at" and that's where you stand.

Look you made a stand and that's good, but then when she brought out the emotional manipulation you backtracked and ceded ground.

You accuse her of suspiciously acting like she is developing an EA, and by the end she has you apologizing for making her have an innapropriate friendship.

Seriously if her new male friend is SOO much better than you, then she needs to go to him. Oh wait why would she do that when she can have him, and you pay the bills.

Look you are at LRT. No way around it. That's just my humble opinion.

Agree guys. 1st step to stopping the neediness was turning off my FB account. That is done. That has been the trigger of all my insecurities and it is removed. As of now, all I truly know is that this guy is FB stalking W.

The reason I backtrack is out of worry for our kids. No doubt about that...probably something to bring up with IC.

If I have to bring up the R with this guy again, I will use starsky's exact words.

And it will be accompianied by D papers.

Navyguy,

As I mentioned earlier, it was a trigger for my insecurities as well. As you probably know, jealousy is a awful emotion. It’s also a total turnoff to the W. As much as it bugs you, there’s nothing you can do about it. Confidence is key. I was just going to say that was a bit wordy with your comments to your W however it looks like the helpful advise has been given by a couple others on your thread. Best of luck.

Don't use Starsky's words, they will backfire, because she doesnt want to work on it.


Sometimes we (understandably so) get so focused on how we should or shouldn't or can or can't have a relationship, that we don't focus our time on having one.

When you walk away when she's still crying, she's going to turn to someone else. When you are talking about the relationship, you're not necessarily having one.

So just start a relationship with her. Have fun. Fun leads to more love. Do some nice things together. Just be with her with her drama and stay through it. It might not feel good to you to do that. What I read through this is that's what she needs and wants.

Distancing is not going to help you with her. Of course clinging won't either. But really being there for her/with her will. Lightening up the situation will help too.

Be the best option.

i really like what you wrote here, dbmod.

i think too many of us go to the lrt mode way too early because we truly don't appreciate how long it takes the WAS to go through their stuff.

focusing our time on having fun with them, with no expectations is really the key and that's what we should be focusing on - not the OP's and what their presence means

Do some nice things together

can you give some more advice on how to accomplish this, when so many WAS's are very resistant to the idea of doing anything fun together. they are so busy being focused on the OP that any suggestion of doing something together makes them withdraw.

i think all of us could use some advice and tips on how to initiate doing fun things in the face of all that resistance

thanks - i'm glad i came across this post
zig

I agree, Lightening up will help both of us. The last week has been pure hell. I think the differing opinions here may be a result of how long I've been trying to "be the best option" with no results.