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Journaling...

Had a decent day yesterday. W and I decided to hang out in the afternoon, cooked dinner together, had some beers. We talked a little about the relationship and going forward, but we got cut off when the kids came in for dinner and never picked it up again.

On the bright side, she said she probably would have went to the retrov follow-up had I asked...shame on me, because I wanted to. She also said that she will probably go to the rest of them and will do the dialoguing with me.

All in all, couldn't have asked for a better outcome given where we were a few days ago. I just want to get along for another month or two as we work thru the rest of the follow-ups and see if we can use them to our advantage. I've got to be more patient than I've been and also work on my expectations, as they are setting me up for failure.

Sounds exactly like my H actually. It dawned on me yesterday that they remain comfortably confused and indecisive BECAUSE THEY CAN. There are no consequences to their indecisiveness so they stay right there for as long as they want. I once asked my dad if he had a MLC. He said he didn't because he just didn't have the time. I asked my mom the same, and she said the same, "Who has the time for that!" Very true - it's because our S's have way too much time to dilly-dally and zero consequence for the dilly-dally.

I've been trying to figure this one out so I look forward to hearing what people here have to say.

I've read some of your sitch, and the anger issue definitely sounds the same. I'm confused at this point because my W seems to be on edge a lot...just waiting for me to say something she can interpret in a negative fashion. Our big fight last week, when she said she was filing today, was the result of me saying "I can't believe you ate all those chicken wings" at happy hour. On one hand, I guess I could have kept my mouth shut, but on the other, I was surprised and I didn't think it was a big deal to voice my surprise. It wasn't like I was saying "Hey fatty!"....but she chose to interpret it that way. Even though I tell her all the time how awesome she looks, and how good of shape she's in, she says "you tore me down for years, so that's how I always take it."

There's certainly truth in what she says...I was insecure and did tear her down for a long time. It didn't really have anything to do with her...it was my own insecurity and in some ways, I felt I wasn't deserving of her love so I think I tried to continually push her away. I've been working thru my issues, and she says she can't believe the transformation, but still, she's pretty pissed about things from years ago and looks for the the opportunity to bring them up again.

In retrovaille last week, one of the basic concepts is that you have the ability to choose to:

- Commit
- trust
- forgive
- love

She says that 1) she doesn't believe you can choose to love, 2) that it's fine to say you have the choice to forgive and trust, but how do you make that happen?

I've shared with her what worked for me in forgiving (she hasn't been an angel thru this marriage), and how I'm working on trust (read a great book on learning to trust a few months back), and how I basically put all my cards on the table and chose to love her, today forward...I choose her as my wife, even with our baggage. Either she doesn't give a crap what worked for me, doesn't care to try, or doesn't believe it. I was thrilled when I heard these things at retrov, because I thought maybe she'd believe them coming from someone else....but I guess that was dumb on my part

Journaling...

Took the day off Tuesday and spent it with family....amazing day. I had such a good time.

Yesterday, I spent the evening with friends...another good day.

Having a rough day today. For some reason, I remember this email I saw that my wife sent to the guy she's having an EA with from Dec. We've fought about her relationship with him for years, and she has stuck to her guns that it's nothing more than friendship. Anyway, the email was a link to some article describing how compatible they are based on their birth signs. When I confronted her about it, she told me that was his wife's sign as well and it was something they had been talking about. I didn't really believe it, but tried to trust her.

I don't know when the lady's bday is, but for some reason, I'm thinking that I probably should find out. If W had a PA with this guy, it doesn't really change the fact that I want to work stuff out, but it really does change how I feel about her working with him regularly. I won't stand for that.

Had a crappy day today. I snooped (I know, I'm not proud of it) and found out that my wife did start the separation process this week. We really haven't talked much this week do to her blow up last week and my GAL, but when I got home tonight she was half lit and was hitting on me. I wasn't really interested, as you might guess. I just don't understand why she won't talk to me about it. If we're heading in that direction, why the surprise factor? And why pretend it's ok? She sent me a text today that said "what happened today that you're not talking to me?" and honestly, at that point, I didn't know anything, I was just busy. But again, why is she worried about me talking to her if she's filing? Sheesh I'm confused.

Managed to talk this morning for about an hour....pretty good discussion, though it's not the stuff I really wanted to hear. Well, I will say that she took some responsibility for where we are, and I think that may be a first, so that's a baby step in my mind. She's willing to continue thru the retrovaille program, but we're going to sit down this weekend and start working thru the separation scenario so that we both know what will happen if nothing changes.

I've told her numerous times that I'm not rushing her, that she can take all the time she needs to work thru this. I have tried to set some ground rules like communicating evening plans and no more using divorce talk as a weapon. She hasn't really respected them though. So I found it slightly funny this morning that she wanted to set a boundary for separation that I don't see anyone else. That's really the last thing I want, so it's kinda weird that she mentioned it.

One thing I wanted to get some input on was living arrangements during separation. Neither of us can really move out, as we are house poor atm. The way I see it, we have two choices....move into separate rooms or try to make a one week on, one week off scenario work with one of us staying with family on our week off. Is it better for reconciliation to go one way or the other? I'm kinda leaning towards the later because I think it'll give her space to work thru her stuff, and I won't constantly be walking on eggshells. Additionally, once we're out of this house, we'll most likely be doing an every other week deal with the kids, though we'll have two households then. Thoughts?

We talked a little this morning and I got a splinter of insight on what's going on in her head. She said a few things that I'd consider baby steps, which is good, but we're still discussing how we'll separate later today. She said she's not quite ready to go, but would like to at least get everything on the table so she doesn't feel threatened or worried about what might happen. She did commit to finishing retrovaille and we talked a little about her timeline (to which she said she had none). For the first time in over a year, I think I saw a little of the woman she used to be before she let her anger and resentment take over....her walls came down for just a few mins, and I really liked what I saw.

With regards to feeling threatened, I can see her point, as I think it'll put me more at ease as well. Also, I think she is testing the waters a bit to see how much I have changed. Historically, I'd probably yell and scream and do my best to make her miserable. But that's not the new me at all. I don't want her to be with me because she's scared, I want her to be with me because that is what she wants. And if we can lay out a plan that works for both of us, in some ways, that may free us.

In the back of my mind, I worry that it's a bit of a set up, but on the other hand, it's not going to be contractual, so I guess neither of us are going to be bound by it. We'll see how it goes.

We dialogued on three questions last night and it went really well. We were both smiling and laughing at the end. We felt so in sync. Unfortunately, our discussion on separation didn't go so well. In hindsight, we should have moved it to today. What I thought she was after was not exactly right. I think she's really more of a "I won't be mean to you" type talk instead of "you get this, I get that."

For example, she works on commission, so you has a huge fear that she won't be able to make it, or there will be times she struggles. I think she was wanting me to say "don't worry, I'll help you." Instead, I say, "if you choose not to be with me, you choose to be without the security I provide as well. I've tried to get you to do a different job, but you are adamant this is what you want to do. In the short term, yes, I'll help you, but long term, you're going to have to learn to budget your money." She makes about 50% what I do, but it's still pretty good money, so I don't feel like I need to be supplementing her. She ignores budgets and bill paying and expects me to figure it out reguarly, so I know this is going to be a challenge for her, but if we're not going to be together, I think she has to start thinking about it. But as you'd expect, she was seriously upset. She's already consulted an attorney, and the difference in incomes would basically be negated by the fact that I have all the insurance, so legally, our discussion was pretty much in sync.

As part of this discussion, I was saying how I would try to help her as I could, but I really couldn't make promises and it wouldn't be forever. I said "if 3 years from now, I remarry, and you need help making your bills, I'm not sure I'll be in a position to do it." Well, she immediately keyed in on "3 years" and got pretty upset again. I said "make it 10 years, whatever, the timeframe isn't the point" but it was too late. She couldn't get off it. I think she was really upset about the idea that I would eventually move on. I tried to reiterate that our marriage is the most important thing to me, but again, I don't think she even heard it.

Another thing she complained about was that all she wanted was a written document saying what we'll do and I wouldn't give it to her. She said in case I try to screw her over later, she could open that and hopefully I'd remember what I had said. I'm not sure how that really makes a difference, but I didn't say I wouldn't do it, I just thought we were verbalizing what we were thinking to see if we were in sync. Honestly, I thought it would be a 15 min discussion....in hindsight, that was just plain dumb.

I guess we'll start up again after church and try to address her specific concerns instead of laying out a plan.

Had pretty good discussions yesterday and a decent followup today. We went over what we wanted if we did separate and she said she was sorry she got upset and attacked me the other day. Seems like we're both pretty much in sync, and I think we could co-parent successfully.

We also talked about how we're both confused right now...she doesn't know what she wants to do and I don't really know how she wants me to behave. When I detach, she starts giving me the 20 question routine, so that hasn't worked out too well. At one point we were talking about retrovaille, and she said, "if you believe love is a choice, just love me and let's go from there." I actually think that's a pretty good idea.

She really opened up on a couple of things...the first being, she is so scared that I will go back to being my old self. I think it's a trust issue, and that's fair. I'm not thrilled she's still on the fence in separating, but I do feel really positive about a lot of things in our relationship....we seem to have the best conversations now, really deep and the listening and understanding on both sides is generally really good (though we both still backslide a little). If this was our starting point 15 years ago, we'd have had 10 awesome years by now, so I'm pretty optimistic right now (though cautiously).

I've decide my approach going forward is:

1) continue to follow retrovaille, dialoguing, etc.
2) choose to love her and speak her love language
3) have a positive outlook, regardless of her behavior, be upbeat
4) discuss her negative behaviors with a focus on feelings

I'm hoping the negative behaviors becomes less of an issue....if they continue, I'm really not sure at this point I'll even mention them. When we're further down the road in our retrov program, we'll see.