Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers How many licks does it take...?

That is GREAT news about the boys and about your progress with the real estate classes. What's the time table for the licensing exam? The trip sounds nice too. I could use a trip.

Many months into our sitch, my WAS/BS also called me to rescue her from a car accident in which some of our kids also were in the car. Many of your emotional reactions to the situation are similar to some of my (unhealthy) ones at the time.

I read that you felt jealous or, really at its core, rejected that your W seemed to reach out to and open up more to this relative stranger (hugging and sobbing with mom of S14's friend) and appeared to be less intimate with you.

We continue the ride home in silence.

Once we got home, I made sure she was ok, suggested she take a couple of advil in case she suffered any strain from the accident and called in the claim to the insurance company.

All the while thoughts are racing through my head like, does she not see the signs all around her that her life is falling to pieces and God or the universe is trying to send her a message to stop and think about what she is doing. Or, how long does she think she will be able to rely on me to bail her out when she is in a jam.

Resentful that she called on you to be the hero/rescuer (AGAIN) when it was convenient for her, but nothing else followed in terms of sustained connection, "sufficient" appreciation or emotional reciprocity. Resentful that no lightbulb went off for her re: how crazy her life was becoming and how you were the rescuing backbone keeping her life from falling like a house of cards -- all because you love her.

Many of these emotions come from implicit expectations of co-dependence. A subconscious belief that your behavior can influence (control/manipulate) your W's emotions, feelings, world view and actions (especially in regards to you).

If I do X (enough), my W/WAS will Y.

You wouldn't be RESENTFUL if you didn't have some expectation about how things "should" go (she "should" have gotten to the center by now with all these licks and me waiting lovingly for her to "get it," being her rescuer and friend in need).

And when Y doesn't happen, all sorts of negative emotions follow (resentment, hurt, jealousy).

The thing is, as I think you are getting with enough licks, YOU are doing this to yourself, not your W. She is not holding a gun to your head to pick her up after the car wreck, to call the insurance company for her, to prescribe Advil for her, to care for her after her medical crisis, to empty her trash, to be her rescuer/caregivier/fixer.

Lovingly remove yourself from the picture. And when you DO interact with her, be detached so that you do not go to reproachful resentment or silence or fixing ("maybe you should change medications"). Instead meet her with validating acceptance ("Yeah, that must be hard not feeling the same since your medical crisis. I imagine that must be hard for you to feel that way, W.". And then get back out of there to your own life.

It is ok to drop the rope and let her fall. Get out of your own way and maybe she will "get it." And, if not, at least you will have gotten it

Being concrete, in what ways might you have handled the car wreck situation differently?

^^^^ "Instead meet her with validating acceptance ("Yeah, that must be hard not feeling the same since your medical crisis. I imagine that must be hard for you to feel that way, W.". And then get back out of there to your own life."

exactly. this is what a friend does. they don't call the insurance company. the validate, show compassion, and leave.

friends aren't silent and don't fail to respond to an apology.

but, i'm no expert. just my opinion.

After this coming week, I'll have 5 of 7 classes complete. Including practice examinations and the completion of my 2 remaining classes, I could be ready for the licensing exam by mid to late July.



I understand your point, Busto. I'm just not sure if I would characterize it as resentment. To me it feels more like a simple awareness of my reality. I'm no longer ruled by my emotions in the way I used to be. I feel like I am just resigned to the fact that this is the way it is and I just shake my head in wonder as to why my W doesn't get it.



I totally get this ^^^. But I oftentimes forget to validate and I know that it is so important. I feel like I need some kind of reminder so that when an opportunity comes around I can provide the validation. It is not something that comes naturally in fact my fixer tendencies are significantly more dominate.

I can totally see my W say something like "the sky is blue and I prefer purple." And instead of saying, "W it must be hard not to be able to look at a purple sky especially since it is your favorite" I'd end up saying "you know, I saw purple skies on sale at the grocery store, I'll go get it for you. Be right back." It is that ingrained in my being. Really hard to change!

I'm interested though; sitting in silence on the drive back from the accident, I really didn't have much to say. Perhaps this is where validation or at least conversation that might lead to an opportunity to show validation would be recommended? I wanted to be careful not to come across as judgmental, knowing full well that my W would have responded in a very defensive way. I felt it better to just keep my mouth shut.



I suppose there are a few different scenarios that could have played out had I handled it differently. And I almost did one. When she called me, I had actually hitched a ride with a friend to do the baseball recon thing. So when she called we were in the middle of the game and she needed a ride. After I confirmed that everyone was ok, I almost told her I was busy which I was. Had that scenario played itself out, things would have been very different, she'd be pissed and it probably would have even cemented her idea about our separation.

Another scenario could have played out like I pick W up and I totally validate and really listen to her while we are on the drive home, then let her know I'd be on my way and that would be it. Totally leave everything up to her to handle, (insurance claim, advil, etc.)..



So how did you handle the situation? What dynamics were in play at the time?

"is an accident after having run a red light! I think to myself, could things get any more insane around here?"

I know that detachment is recommended but IMO every scenario is different. If I had gotten the call that my son and wife were in an accident and the car was totaled I would have also went to the scene - no matter what my situation is with my wife.

Question -- why did your wife run the red light ? I know she had some medical issues -- amd was wondering if this could something caused by her condition. I ask because she has your kids with her in the car -- as well as herself. Maybe when you are alone with your son -- you can ask him. Just my 2 cents.

This is awesome! What are you leaning on doing with it? Residential? Commercial? Buying or selling agent? Good timing because the market is starting to pick up finally, no? (or at least stopped dropping?).



Yep, I know just what you mean. I was the same way. Keep working at it. For me my progress went from recognizing that I had just "fixed" rather than listened and validated some hours after I had done so, to minutes after I had done so, to catching myself while I was in the act of doing it (I even once slipped out a "HAH!" while my W was in the room when I caught myself), to preempting it more and more until it became more my habit than my exception. Maybe even try to reward yourself with something each time you validate rather than fix.



Hehe.



Nah, sometimes quiet is ok. But would you sit in dead silence with a friend of yours, say your roommate, if he got in a wreck and you went to go pick him up? What might you say? "Hey, I'm glad you weren't seriously hurt. How you feel? You ok?" And if they say "Fine." "OK, good to hear, I bet getting into a car accident can shake you up." And then you go on bs'ing about whatever or if it seems they wanna be quiet, then that's fine too, you be quiet. Wasn't clear from y'all's interaction what the tenor of the silence was like.





I bet she's pretty pleased with the way the separation is going with OM on one side and 2thepoint ready to bail her out on the other. Yeah, she might get crazy pissed in the short-term and swear that this is it, you've ruined it forever. Your true colors have come out. But, then long-term, she may decide that not having 2thepoint there for her is not what she really wanted after all. Alot of it would be in how you communicate to her that you are not there to rescue her anymore (and why).



Yeah, a complicating issue with the car wreck sitch is it didn't just involve your W, it also involved one of your S. So, it also is reasonable to go out there to make sure your S is ok, not too scared and able to get home safely and and that the mother of your S is unhurt. In that case you would go out there to take care of that business. Validate the mother of your son/ex about the wreck. And once S was home safe with his mom, get out of Dodge quick to let her clean up her mess.





This was before I said I had had enough and the whole sitch didn't work for me and I was going NC. It was when I was still in waiting/hoping friend mode.

I went to rescue her. She left me waiting on the sidewalk of a busy street for like 45 minutes trying to juggle our 3 girls and keep them safe while she was texting away with a friend of hers non-stop in the car about what happened, waiting for the cops and basically ignoring me. I dropped everyone back off at her place, and she thanked me for bailing them out. I was angry and disappointed that she took me so much for granted (I had unmet expectations, also by this point I realized that other women did not treat me that way). I resolved not to allow myself to rescue someone that didn't also value me.

I left her to deal with all the fallout, insurance, etc. stuff

My interest is in residential real estate although I've had this desire to buy and own apartments buildings for some odd reason (big $$$ opportunity if you buy it right and when you rehab you can get tax free cash out refinance loan and do it all over again with the proceeds). I've learned that it is better to to listings as opposed to helping buyers find properties. Yes, I think the timing is very good. And I was surprised to learn that it is the agent that interviews the broker and not the other way around. It would be nice to be in the drivers seat for a change!



OK, I understand now. I should point out that the silent ride home was not one of tense, angry silence. It was really more of we both said what we needed to say before we pulled away and that was pretty much it. I see though where I could have interjected some light comments that would have provided an opportunity to validate. Missed opportunity - Ack!



Thanks for sharing that part. It helps me to see how you handled it or came to how you handled your W further down the road.

Since opening the claim, I've left my W to handle every other aspect of the accident, including rental car, going back to get personal belongings from the storage lot, arranging for towing to the repair shop, etc. It is all on her now.

I failed to mention that yesterday after S10 and I got back from church, I was waiting at the house for W to get back from her zumba classes. She finally gets home and since S10 is upstairs playing video games, we began to chat. I was in a good mood and W seemed to be as well, We talked a little about the accident, about the boys, etc. She asked me how church was (not something she would normally ask about) and then she asked me how often I go to the gym. That seemed like an odd question but I said "a couple of times a week. Why do you ask." And her response just about floored me! She said, "you look really good. How much do you weigh now?" I answered the question and then asked her how she feels with her zumba and we went on from there. Then I made my exit.

How to handle a car accident is a tough call. Accidents happen for a million different reasons, and I don't consider you going to help her was "rescuing", at least not on the same level as something else. Unless she was driving recklessly or under the influence, I wouldn't put the blame on her.

Your son was in the car; you naturally put on your protective dad suit. How would you have handled it if it was only your W in the car?

Sure, in hindsight it's easier to think about what one would have said or done differently, but you keeping quiet was not a bad thing to do. I'm not sure if you did or not, but the one thing you could have done is to ask her if she was ok and if she needed anything (which I think you said you did).

As far as breaking down and crying in front of S's friend's mother, I wouldn't read into it much. It is not because she doesn't trust you or feel comforted by you, in fact I don't think she was looking for comfort. Sometimes we (women) start crying as soon as we start talking about an upsetting event, and sometimes talking to another woman feels more comforting than talking to a spouse.

I understand that you want to set boundaries and not say "how high" every time your W says "jump". I do think that this kind of conversation should take place in a neutral setting when nothing else is on the mind. You should not do it during a difficult time such as an accident. Your W was clearly shaken up from the accident. The last thing you'd want to do is to tell her that she's on her own, leading her to feel even more alone and helpless.

A few years back, I was driving on the interstate with H - going about 80 mph in the left lane, and there was a ghost driver heading right towards us. It took me a few seconds to even understand what was going on, and then I ended up quickly pulling over (to the left side breakdown lane....don't know why I didn't go to the right). The car was in the same lane as us and just kept coming, not slowing down at all, but luckily it went by us without anyone getting harmed. Though we didn't get into an accident, it still left my heart pounding for a while.

What I'm trying to say is that I agree that maybe for a good part of your interactions with your W, boundaries would be healthy and needed. But in certain situations, like a car accident, I would say that a boundary can be stretched a bit, even if it looks like you rescued her. Just my 2 cents.

Very glad to hear other developments in your life though And that trip does sound like it's needed!

Why are you trying to do what you think she would want? Why aren't you doing what you want? You don't know what she wants unless she tells you and she is not gving you that information right now so do your best not to mind read and base your actions and decisions on what is best for you, not her.

2thepoint: "So I've heard. You're pretty easy on the eyes too." (exit)

Possible to flirt without pursuing (see old Cary Grant movies).

That's great your working out is paying off. What do you usually do there? Had you gotten out of the habit of going before the bomb? Probably most of us did.

That's a good line, Busto. Too bad I was never a player even when I was at the age where that sort of thing was the norm. Is it too late to teach an old dog new tricks?

My gym routine was quite a bit more sporadic than it is today. I usually do a circuit that consists of this ab twist machine that works the abs and love handle areas, then I work on shoulders, chest, then crunches and arms. Then I wind down on the treadmill, sometimes just a brisk walk but also some running. I usually wrap up the routine with 15 minutes in the steam room. I have lost 20 pounds since the bomb and have managed to keep it off for the most part.