This is how the issue came up in MC with Mr. W. last summer. "Why do I have to be nagged into calling?"
I have noticed that even though he feels nagged (even through the separation), he now calls me on the road because I am happier upon his return.
It becomes an issue about the chicken and the egg. Perhaps if you bring this up in C, your C can find a way to help your H validate your request? After all, you're not asking for a whole lot... just some reassurance that he thinks about you when he's gone.
Perhaps if he can muster the validation (rather than attempting to understand at this point), he can see that you work smarter about getting closer to him.
Just a thought.
Hugs!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I have found that no matter how you word it, unless they are receptive to hear, any request is considered nagging. This is the hard part. Obviously you both want to make it work, but our words get in the way.
It's frustrating.
Maybe a gentle talk once he is home would help.
NO FISH EATING!!!!
Pattie
When you can't make a decision because you are torn between your heart and your head, listen to the half with the brain.
You girls are the best! Thank you for giving me lots to think about. Tired or not, Meredith, you were right on. I'm having a tough time wrapping my brain around the whole thing, but I am going to give it the old college try. I have a MC session tomorrow, so I will definately bring this up. She had better start working on our future...I'm ready for some type of assignment or something. Re-hashing the past has had its time. Off to catch up with everyone else....
Well, guys, I put my membership in the sobriety club in jeopardy last night, but I think I rebounded enough for you to keep me around. AAAARGH! Men frustrate me! O.k., I feel better now. In a nutshell: I CONSTANTLY perform acts of service for H. Didn’t understand this, as it is neither of our LL. But, I do it anyway and then get frustrated over all I do. I am trying to stop this, but it is so hard! Here’s an example of how a good intention can go wrong: I made enchiladas for dinner. I foolishly thought my oldest son would not eat a lot because he had a sporting event to participate in a few hours later. I was wrong. So, when H finally rolled in, there was only 1 enchilada left. (It was rather big, though). So, he asked, “Is this all?” Well, I felt myself start to snap. (“Well, H, maybe if you let us know what time you would be coming in and how hungry you will be I could anticipate your needs more! Many times I cook a huge meal, only to be told, “Oh. I had a late lunch.”) But, no, I just apologized and said I would be happy to get something else.
Well, maybe he sensed my agitation. He got irritated and said, “I can get my own food.” This led me to say, “wow, it must be tough to be you. I mean, having someone care about you and want to do things for you must be awful.” (YES, I KNOW! BAD BAD BAD Me!)
So, I calmed myself down and tried to explain to him that I had gotten myself into a habit of performing these acts of service because in my mind, if I did them, I would be freeing up his time, thus making room for him to spend quality time with me…which is my LL. When it doesn’t happen that way, I get hurt and angry. This, you guys, I need help with! If I compiled a list of the things I do for this man, you would immediately come here and whack me with a 2 x 4. I have crossed the line from wife to personal slave. The thing is: He doesn’t like it either! But, I just can’t get past the guilty feelings of him working hard all day and then having to come home and do something for himself. It honestly makes me feel so guilty that it just sets me off for the whole night.
It is a lose/lose situation. I do things, and 1 of 2 things happens: a. It irritates him (and I get angry) b. He takes whatever I have to offer, then spends the night offering up no quality time whatsoever (and I get angry.)
But, if I don’t do something and see that he is doing it, I end up feeling guilty (and I get angry. Albeit at myself this time, but I still end up angry).
So, I can’t win. I just feel like such a loser if he asks for something and I don’t have it or can’t easily take care of it. I guess, Betsey, this is the whole insecurity thing. It’s like I think that everything is a deal-breaker. (“What? You didn’t bring the towels up from the laundry room? It is OVER!”) I know this is insane, but I am having such a hard time stopping it.
You know, there was a lot more to this story, but I think I will stop here. I have given you all enough to respond to. Besides, as I type this, I see that it is the main problem anyway. The rest is just the result of it….
Wow, us sharks are hungry creatures lately! Must be the weather or something…
Ok, so let me make sure I have my facts straight here. You have an idea in your head about what a perfect wife should be and what she should do. You want to be that perfect wife so that he can never use any of the things you don’t do as a deal breaker and in return, he’d have a lot to miss if he left…right? Add to that drive the overhanging guilt from some past actions and we get Pam the superwife!
Then we have H…who feels that he is a grown man and can take care of himself. Yet, strangely, he seems rather miffed when there isn’t enough dinner for him or something that he expected done isn’t. He doesn’t want to be the Neanderthal husband who wants his wife to work outside the home and still be responsible for the cooking, cleaning and caring for the children. Yet, he is a man and they have a natural tendency to let us take over when we so vehemently volunteer to do so (I learned this from you on my thread…by the way!).
I think that the ultimate solution here would be to sit down at the kitchen table as a family. Everyone should have their schedules ready, and as a family it should be discussed what needs to be done and who is responsible for it. For instance, Pam and the boys may alternate who cooks, and dinner can be at 6 (or whatever). If H is going to be late, then he forfeits any portion of food that would be his and if there is some left, he lucks out. If not, the bread is in the pantry! All I’m saying (and you and Betsey said the same thing to me on my own thread) is that if everyone knows what is expected of him or her, then there won’t be any confusion later. Yeah, worked well for the Waltons! In real life, not sure what the solution would be .
The quality time…ah, the quality time. I think that we can bring this need up until we are blue in the face but they won’t get it the way we need them to. They have a different LL...they may think theirs is the only one. For instance, I would far rather my H showed up earlier at the house so we could spend time together than wait for 20 minutes at the coffee shop for a bagel and coffee that I didn’t want in the first place! But he saw it as an act of love! He would much prefer a gift than quality time, so the quality time didn’t even cross his mind (even though I’ve said it, and said it, and said it some more). Here is where more of you own advice appears on your thread. What if you were to positively reinforce him when he does offer quality time? “Thanks for sitting here with me, H. I really appreciate spending this time with you” or something equally corny. Enough words of affirmation and he just might figure it out.
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
Well, doesn't it just suck when your own words come back to haunt you???
Yes, Meredith, my H has often requested that I give up some of my jobs to the boys. I have such a hard time with this! It's not control, it's not thinking that only I can do it best. It is pure and simple guilt. I look at H and think: he works so hard! I'm at the house more than him. He shouldn't have to iron, cook, clean, do bills, etc... Oh look! He's sitting on the couch, tired! Maybe a glass of milk and some nice warm cookies straight out of the oven will make him happy.... Not only will I serve it to him, but I will go out there and take the dirty plate and glass away when he is done!"
For the boys: S17 has 2 jobs, and goes to school. Being 17 sucks. He needs time to himself, to figure things out. Next year he will be a senior. These are the last times he'll be able to just have fun. Friends are calling? "Oh, just go...I'll finish up the chores....Oh, you need more money? S, I haven't bought myself anything in ages. I gave up drinking coffee because I hate spending the $6 on myself... Yes, I realize that you look good in clothes from Abercrombie. O.k., here is $45 for a t-shirt. I will just make due with the jeans I have had for 2 years."
S15 has a brilliant mind. He is working hard to maintain a 4.0. He stresses himself out about this, and needs the downtime after school. "You need to relax and play Game Cube, S15? Oh, go ahead...you worked hard today. I'll do the chores....Oh, your friends and you all need a ride to the Mall? Well, I'm tired, but I know how you feel about not fitting in because of your academic record. I will do whatever I can to ensure that you fit in with everyone."
"S11...You have come a long way. You used to be antisocial, now you've finally developed a fun, outgoing personality. Oh! Your friends are at the door! I'd hate for you to go back to your loner days. Go on out..I'll do the chores.... You want HOW many kids over today? Well, I will have to run to the store to get snacks for everyone. I'm kind of tired, S. But, I do want you to continue with the great strides you have made... O.K., give me an hour to get some things ready for everyone!"
Oh my Gosh! I had to type that to see what I was doing! That did not feel so good. Let me go for broke then, and continue on to me, and what I am saying to myself through these actions: "P, everyone else's lives are more important than yours. So what if you don't have time to pursue the things you enjoy! So what if you never spend a dime on yourself! Most H's would LOVE to have a thrifty wife like you! Your H is well cared for, your kids will all grow to be successful because you have given them every opportunity you could."
This might be my only post before I take my near-dead cousin to the airport... but I'll be back and full of life when my task is finished.
Pamela, your post brought all sorts of things to surface from our MC stint last summer. We discussed this very stuff for quite awhile.
I applaud Anchor for her suggestion about discussing expectations. Our MC has told us that the devil is in the details, and if there is a problem area for one person, it's a problem area for everyone. Therefore, this topic should be addressed and hashed out so that everyone understands what happens. And then you make them sign in blood (OOOH, did I say blood?) that there will be no complaining about the rules if they don't follow them.
Also, MC pointed out that Mr. W's LL might be Acts of Service (and it is), but to be very careful about the motives in doing things for others. And it's not just the Acts LL people who are guilty of this. Clarity: often people do something for others because they are hoping or expecting something in return--whether that be some free time away from the family, a returned act or favor or money.
He had to give Mr. W. a big old bonk on his noggin on this one by saying, "K, if you do things for others, you should do them because you WANT to do them--not to expect something in return." It took my fish 2 or 3 sessions to accept this as a rule to live by (he first debated this hotly...).
So I guess the first step is to recognize those times when you want something from your H or sons. Instead of doing something for them, it would probably be a whole lot easier to ask them for what you want (remember this chapter in the book?)
But know that I have not gotten to that point yet, so I'm hardly qualified to tell you how this works.
More later... almost time to head out.
Hugs! Go YOU!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Pamela - boy, your post could have been written by me
Some of the things I have done that have improved my R include giving the kids more responsibility for chores (still working on that one - boy, school is so much harder than it was when we were kids!), spending more on myself (my H would rather see me in a new outfit than know how much money I'm saving - in fact, when I get a great bargain, he doesn't even want to hear about it - I think he'd rather know I splurged and paid full price!), putting my own needs higher on my list - especially time to work out.
I thought I was doing the right thing by accomodating everybody else, but in the end, it just made my H think less of me.
Quote: I thought I was doing the right thing by accomodating everybody else, but in the end, it just made my H think less of me.
Yes, Ellie. The sad part? My H has REPEATEDLY told me that he wants me to spend money on myself. Yet, I keep thinking that the RIGHT thing to do is constantly worry about squirreling money away for 3 college educations and whatever else these guys need. He has told me what he wants, yet I keep thinking that I know better....
