Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Do I just give in?

Thanks grocery. I completely understand what you are saying. Tomorrow starts my softball league so that will help. I definitely am trying to find ways to get my mind off things.

At the same time, today was definitely interesting. It started with her taking me to go see an apt shes interested in. I told her when we decided on the separation that I would help her find a place and I guess shes taking me up on that. She doesn't want to ask her mom or sister or even friends for help, shes looking to me. Its about 20 mins from home so I can live with that - I need to regardless. One thing I noticed is that she has started talking about things like she doesnt want to set something in stone or make big purchases in the event she wants to come home. Furniture for apt was one example, not getting her own bank account is another, even down to the stuff that she will buy - she wants to make sure it would have a purpose in our house. Like I said interesting day.

I will miss her coming to my games and cheering me on though...

Shes going tomorrow to hand in the rental application for the apartment she wants. Still trying to avoid buying new stuff to furnish apt. Not sure if she is really thinking of this as temporary, just trying to avoid spending extra money, or if shes just focusing on getting out and trying to make things as possible for herself.

Started softball today, it was good to get out and back into something I'm used to. Also looking at running a couple 5k races this spring and summer. Only bad thing with that is I hate running At least it will help keep me busy and focus on something else.

I hate everything about this whole thing. I wish she'd just come up those stairs and we'd start working on things but I've accepted that it isn't happening...at least not right now.

I feel your pain, Hurt! I wish for the same things, and even, imagine them sometimes, but I know it's not going to happen, at least not right now either.

My H also signed a lease for his apt, I believe this past weekend...not too sure though. He has not set up a time to pick up our spare bedroom stuff so I'm not sure.

I like your 180s...I hate running, too, but have also thought about it too!

Thanks hopingandpraying. While I don't think any of us like the situations we are in, it's good to read others stories and see that I'm not alone.

So it's barely 12 noon and I've already slipped up twice today. First, this morning when I was leaving for work and she was getting ready to go hand in her application for the apartment, I reminded her that I wasn't forcing her to move out and that if she'd come around that I'd be willing to work at things (not exactly in those words, but you get the point).

The second slip up was just now. Her sister asked me how I was doing and if she's come around and I blurted everything out, down to why I think my wife is avoiding talking to her and her mother.

I was doing so good but in both cases I couldn't help myself. She knows I'm not happy with what's going on so why did I need to say anything? I had been better about not pursuing her. With her sister, it's not like she's confided in her at all through this whole thing, so why did I have to do that? It's not like she's going to magically open up now.

I get the impression that anyone that asks me what's going on or how I'm doing, I'm going to tell them because I just want to talk to someone about it. But I know that it won't necessarily help things with my wife...if anything, they all tell me I'm holding on to something when I'm not getting any reason to.

I've stopped trying to figure out who she's talking to and what they are talking about - it's been 4 days. At this point, it really doesn't matter if she's still talking to OM or not. I know what's gone on and me torturing myself by continually checking up on her doesn't change a thing. I want to know but these last few days I actually feel a little relieved or like a burden has been pulled off me.

She handed in the application for the apartment so obviously me backtracking this morning didn't change a thing. Can't wait to see her reaction if her sister gets on her case again.

Don't be so hard on yourself about the backtracking Hurt.
It happens.

I rememeber when my sitch began, I found myself spilling my guts to "everyone", it hurt so bad.

Two steps forward, for every step back, K?

Wow, Hurt. I felt like I was reading my own story. The amount of similarities are a bit eerie.

I don't really want to give much advice because to be honest, I don't really know what I'm doing myself. All I can say is this: Give her space, GAL, and take the time to figure out what you need to improve in your life, and what you want from life.

I bought the book 'Holding on to your N.U.T.s' and it's helped me to realize what my boundaries are, and to never waiver form them. The rest can be negotiated, but your boundaries are your boundaries.

If you have time, read my story. As I'm about 6 months ahead of you, maybe you can learn what to do, but probably more what NOT to do.

Good luck bud.

Hurt84,

You are panicking right now, and when you panic, you tend to act without thinking. That's okay, it's normal to feel that way. I only point it out because if you can step back and *see* that you're panicking, it can help you to deal with it.

I read some interesting research that talked about the fact that feeling "in love" is directly linked to feeling "out of control". It is that out of control feeling that leads to a desire to bond. When you're dating, there's an element of risk because you don't know what the other person will do next, you need to work to stay involved, etc. This makes you feel "in love". When your W leaves you, you once again feel completely out of control, and this triggers a big dose of that "in love" feeling. That's why you're obsessing about her. You can seek to counteract that by pursuing things that make YOU feel in control. Anything that allows you to set goals, check in every week and see progress is going to help get your feet back under you.

The second thing to be aware of is that your wife cannot will herself to want to be back with you. There's nothing she can do consciously to conjure those feelings up, and that's why begging, pleading, convincing, and family influence don't work at all. What do you need to do to get those feelings back? You need to be:

1) confident
2) happy
3) slightly mysterious

If your presentation to W is not fitting into these 3 categories consistently, you're prolonging your pain. People are often afraid that if they don't demonstrate their love, they'll drive their partner away. Unfortunately, demonstrating your love is needy, not confident, when your spouse has walked away, so it does nothing to win them back.

Looking at the three points above:

Confidence: When W leaves your self esteem takes a big hit. Your confidence is based in your self-impression, and the reaction others have to you. If you define your worth by your wife's reaction, then her leaving punches you down in both categories, and you struggle to get her approval and interest back to pick you up in both areas. When she doesn't respond to you, you feel even worse and a death spiral ensues. In DB, we recommend GAL and 180 to help restore your self-confidence independent of W. By interacting with others and seeing how they value you, and by taking pride in your own activities and accomplishments, you can start to "get your mojo back", and you must get it back *before* you can fix your marriage, you can't expect to fix your marriage in order to restore your mojo.

If you're old enough to remember the movie "Fast Times at Ridgemont High", Dimone summed it up "The attitude dictates that you don't care whether she comes, stays, lays, or prays. I mean whatever happens, your toes are still tappin'. Now when you got that, then you have the attitude." That's self-confidence, you are happy with you, no matter what she does.

Happiness: People want to be around people who are happy, and to avoid people who are unhappy. If you present unhappiness to W when you interact, you'll have a black cloud over your head, and she'll want to avoid you. In DB we recommend "act as if", which is to say that if your GAL activities and 180's are not making you happy when W is around, then fake it until you make it.

Mystery: Many LBS' make the mistake of showing all their cards, of telling their wayward spouse what they are thinking and feeling at every turn. This gets old and tiresome quickly. If they know exactly how you feel and what you'll do or say, then you're entirely predictable, and they have no reason to think about you at all. You're easily out of mind. Now if you change things up by getting a new haircut, dressing differently, going out when you would normally stay in, make some new friends, etc. etc. and do not explain what you're doing or why, you start to cultivate some interest. Do not lay your cards on the table, hold them close to your vest. Make her wonder what you're thinking and what you're up to. I often notice that the best thing that can happen is for W to call you and hear voices, music and good times in the background. If she asks where you are, you tell her you're "out" and leave it at that.

Ironically, this advice can be seen as counter-DB, because in many ways it's putting on a show to get W back. I offer it up because when you're in panic mode, you want to be doing *something* productive, and these are things you can do, that are consistent with DB. If you *really* want to DB, then you look at yourself critically and decide what changes you want to make *for yourself* regardless of what W does. Then you make those changes, and you make them when no one is watching, and you don't care if anyone notices, because they are FOR YOU. That is your goal, that's where you want to get. If you can do that, everything else falls into place, but you have to get there mentally first.

In answer to your question, if your W's family comes to you to talk, the best thing you can do is to tell them at a high level that you love your wife, that you want the marriage to work out, and that you're willing to do the work required. Beyond that you should tell them that W needs their support right now and you don't want her to feel you are talking to them behind her back. Having her sister or her mother "on her case" really won't help you. If she moved back in because her mother told her to, would that be a victory to you? You want her back because she WANTS to be back.

Your W is *very* conflicted and I think you have a very good chance of turning this around if you can force yourself to back off. If she wanted out, she certainly wouldn't want you to come along to help her look at apartments, she'd take a friend.

Most people will advise you to stay living together if at all possible. If its not, then do not help her move away. Don't help her figure out the finances, don't help her with apartment hunting. You don't want it to be easier to live without you, you want it to be harder.

WRT your vacation together, that will be great if you can DB, but will be risky if you can't. I will warn you that based on how you're feeling, it may be very hard to pull off without backsliding. You can have NO relationship discussions, you can pepper in no little comments about how things would be better if you were back together, you cannot present unhappiness etc. etc. Are you up for that? If not, make different vacation plans that don't include W, but do NOT sit home alone while she goes on vacation.

You can do this, W is trying to leave the door cracked open, but wants some space. Give it to her and back WAY OFF. Pursuing and discussing WILL NOT WORK!

Accuray

Thanks everyone for the comments.

Her application for the apartment got approved yesterday so she's going to look at it on Friday. I feel like one minute she's going full steam ahead but the next she keeps looking back to what she's walking out on.

She definitely wants to keep things easy for herself though. My guess is that she wants to keep the door open to come home if her A isn't working out or if she finds that its hard on her own. I'm kind of okay with that because there is that chance that she does come back but at the same time I feel like I'm a backup plan in case what she wants doesn't work out. I don't know how I feel about being a backup plan - I'm her husband, I'm supposed to come first. Then again, if that was the case, would we even be here?

We agreed last week that we'd hold off on discussing what really was going to come next until after she takes this test for work on Friday. While she's been doing this apartment hunting, etc since then I haven't really pushed any big conversations about what's going to happen - we talked about finances briefly but nothing too in depth - holding to what we agreed and to give us both a little space. Besides my slip up yesterday, the only things we've discussed have been the stuff she'd take, which those weren't really discussions - she asked if I'd be okay with her taking some furniture from the guest room and a couple other things and I didn't really answer. I'm okay with most of it but in thinking about things again, it's another way of her making things easy on herself. She wants to leave that door open.

She doesn't want our family and friends to know that she'd be moving out until after our vacation - which is over a month away. She's been adamant through everything that she doesn't want to cancel the vacation. She says because we are supposed to go with friends that it would be rude if we backed out. I think it's because she knows if she doesn't go with me that she can't go. She doesn't want to get her own bank account or change her direct deposit from work because she doesn't want them knowing what's going on. She wants to do her laundry at our house rather then at the apartment complex. I mean what is this? Are we back in college where she comes home on the weekends to get her mail and do laundry?

I'm thinking that when we do discuss what's next after this test that I'm going to say that if she really wants to leave that door open to her coming home that I think we need to go to MC in the meantime, otherwise what's the point? If she's not willing to do that, which she's refused at every point throughout all of this, then what are we really doing? Is she just trying to figure out a way to string along her backup plan?

I want to act as if none of this is bothering me or affecting me but throughout everything she's wiggled her way around the "stands" I've taken. Only when things have gotten somewhat "real" for her, when I told her that she needs to move out or that we need to figure out when and how to tell our family, has she actually either showed any sort of emotion in front of me or has tried to hold on to some sort of normalcy. Me letting her wiggle around all that I feel is just prolonging my torture.

Just journaling a little bit...

Needless to say, I'm having good and bad days emotionally with everything. Today I guess would be a bad one compared to others.

Going to work actually isn't that much of a release because I sit in front of a computer all day so it's hard to keep my mind off things. W works later than me most nights, Mondays and Tuesdays she gets home after 9 and Wednesdays and Thursdays after 7, so when I get home I have a lot of time on my hands to think. Add in that we've basically been living apart in the same house for almost a month and it's just too much time alone to not think about things. It's just me and the dog, who W had to have but has always left to me to walk her in the AM or before bed.

As I mentioned in previous posts, I'm trying to do a few a different things to GAL but up until now most of what I did revolved around her. I never had a problem with that because if I was able to make her happy then I was happy and I thought we had a lot of the same interests but I guess in retrospect none of that helps me now.

I've been running with a few co-workers after work (again, I hate running), Sunday softball has started, I have Yankee games to go to like every other weekend, and this 5k idea that I started seeing if some friends were interested in. I'm doing my best to fill the hours but a lot of that stuff I'd either do with her or she'd be there supporting me so that part of it [censored].

Don't tell her anything, demonstrate with action. You will be a backup plan as long as she knows you're available to be one. If you can lead her to believe that you're going to lead your own life, then she will begin to question on her own if you'll be there when she chooses to return. You need to make her wonder, and you do that with action, not words.

With regard to the furniture, don't get into it at all. Tell her "do what you think is right" and leave it at that, and do not help her move it out.

Accuray