Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Midlife Crisis MLC or Passive Aggressive or Narcissism

PS...the friends above are the formerly mutual friends who supported him when he was cheating on me and who are now friends with him and OW....

Antonia,
Don't beat yourself up...I lived w/my PA xh for 25 years and never quite understood what was going on w/him until after he left!

Bea, I believe you are spot on about the abandonment. A memory popped into my head when I was reading your posting. When my xh left, he told his mother that I was just like his father. Well, I'm not...I haven't been married 5 times or cheated on my spouse(s), I never went to jail for not paying child support, nor have I stole from my employer or run from the bill collectors. I also never abandoned him, but his father abandoned the family pretty much from a very early age and his mother put up w/him coming back and leaving many times until they divorced when my xh was 16. His father didn't have much time for his kids, but when he needed money, he always made a point of contacting the family for money.

The only thing that I can think of is that my xh knew I was advancing up the ladder in my career and he realized that because of his PA behavior, I was doing more and more around the home and didn't ask him to do anything. Maybe he thought I had abandoned him emotionally...but that's water under the bridge. My neighbors have said that it's like everything has continued to run smoothly at my residence...why? Because I use to have to do it all even when he was here.

Bottom line, PA behavior can drive you to the point of questioning your own sanity.

During one of my ex's emotional spews before he moved out I remember him screaming, "I will not be abandoned by you or anyone else anymore." His mother had left him at the age of 12 and moved out of state. I had been advancing in my career and taking care of the household duties and responsibilities due to his depression I truly feel he thought I was going to leave him, so he quick found bimbo.

OH thank you so much everyone!

Wow, I really can't believe how I tend to "revisit" the thought that maybe I am the crazy one and it's my fault.

I think that's really warped my mind and it still to this day will get me in a tizzy if I allow myself to dwell on it too long is the PROJECTION that comes from him!

Everything I expressed concern about to him or even frustration with he's turned right around and has accused me of the same thing. Or the self full filling prophecies. It still blows me away how I've been accused of making him feel abandoned and alone, put on the back burner, ignored, and that Im FRIGID!

He withdrew, stonewalled, and froze me out. He made everyting else a priority but me. He ignored me. He refused to help out with the house work. Yet I was here constantly trying to engage him verbally, mentally, and sexually. NOTHING BUT REJECTION. Doing all the house work but getting damn exhausted from a very draining job, so I let the house go. He used to tell me " hey don't worry about the house. It's ok. We're tired".

But now the house is such a mess he wants to puke. Does he lift a finger to help? No. He hates our pets and the messes our old one makes. Does he get up to let her outside late at night so she doesn't mess on the floor since he's up till 2 am.? No. I try to initiate sex, something he used to love, but now he's not interested. WE work opposite shifts, sleep opposite times a good part of the week, so oppurtunity for intimacy is tough. But I still try when I can! But it's still all my fault we have no sex life and it's also my fault he doesn't want sex anymore. He doesn't want sex anymore because I didn't give it to him a certain amount of times a week. If he doesn't get it a certain amount of time each week he doesn't want it at all.

I can't believe I actually listened to that crap! But I know why. See there is an element of truth to all of that, and being the fair person I am, of course I will hear his side of things.

yes he was depressed and in a really bad place alight. I was very worried about him. No, we didn't have a sex life, and it was bothering me and worrying me. I chalked it all up to his depression and our schedule conflicts. Yes I knew I had taken alot of roles and our connection was waning and not as close as it's been in the past. However I was completely aware of our reality in every day life and it was a major contributor.

When I called him on it, he half way admits Im right but then says He still cares about me, and doesn't hate me, but it doesn't change the way he feels or the way he feels about me. WTH does that mean??? LOL!!!!

Oh we have to find some humor in this.

Wow...what you said trusting about your ex and the abandonment really stuck with me. My xh seemed really stuck on feeling abanonded and it still just blows me away. I've been here all along, being his wife. I made it clear I cared and loved that man. Yet I've abandoned him.

What Universe do these people belong to? Or better yet, what Universe do we need to find to get our sanity back?

Abandonment: W says her aim is to find the man who will make her feel totally secure, no matter what she does. Not sure what man will feel totally secure in a marriage with a woman who now is about to have 2 marriages behind her and in both she had two affairs,including her first marriage which she lied to me about 'because if I told you the truth you might not have married me'.

Projection: This is someone who quite clearly is not happy with her life, is carrying a lot of inner turmoil, lacks spontaneity,and is always looking for the perfect man to make her totally secure. 'YOU are depressed';, 'YOU are such a pessimist', 'when did YOU start having a problem with sex?' 'Tou need to see someone', 'There's mental illness in YOUR family'.

Because of the damaged child in side the PA seems to build a whole new persona, life and history on covert actions. deviousness and lies. It's a whole new reality sadly because the actual reality is often just to painful. Sad, I feel for anyone who has to suppress all that hurt but 'I didn't break her it's not my job to fix her'.

Its important for the PA to deny you what you want. Classic case here of PA or MLC behavior. Sorry vent coming up!!
W has new boyfriend (20 days after moving out!) New target for the PA behaviors or MLC bandaid. Basically first/only available male anyway.

Not sure whether this exchange is PA or MLC or both took place a week ago.
Me 'are you in a sexual relationship?'
W 'maybe'.
Me 'If you are just tell me we are all adults and it will speed up the divorce process'
W 'Okay yes we are and I will not contest it'.
Me 'Good send me the details of where and when and I will file the papers ASAP'
W 'Good I will and I will not contest it!'

Several prompts later and still no information nearly a week later.

But 2 days ago: She asked for some papers. No problem I will drop them in to your office. I give her the papers she hugs me and gives me the 'I love you but not in a sexual way' speech.
Wants to go for coffee, very convivial, 'there's a new counselor in town I think we should go to see her to discuss how to handle the divorce re our sons' I say that's fine please arrange an appointment.

Appointment arranged and I say I still need the information for the Divorce Papers. W: 'Well if that's the way you still want to go fine but shouldn't we wait until after we have seen the (new) counselor you don't know what might come out of it.' Is this PA chain-jerking or MLC cake-eating/clinging to the edge?

Today I called her on this, told her not to try to even imply there might be hope for a reconciliation especially whilst she is in a relationship with another man. Asked yet again for the information for the divorce papers. W denied any implication of giving (false) hope, that's not what she meant or implied at all. She said 'I am not that complicated" yeah right! Only a lifetime of deviousness in which to perfect the techniques of PA! (Or is it MLC?)

Hi Kimmerz,
Just picked up on

Remember the PA's role in a relationship is to just turn up. You must have all the emotion all the empathy.

With regards to the sexual rejection: 'The passive aggressive often can't trust. Because of this, they guard themselves against becoming intimately attached to someone. A passive aggressive will have sex with you but they rarely make love to you. If they feel themselves becoming attached, they may punish you by withholding sex.'

Withholding sex is about control. It's a passive/aggressive way of expressing anger. Someone who withholds sex will imply by their actions that they have a lot to give. They are, by all outward indications sincere in their love for their spouse. They hook you in with sincerity and then they cut you off.
They feel in control if they have the upper hand sexually. You are put in the position of being the one who initiates sex. Your spouse doesn't have to do anything in the relationship except show up. All the work needed to develop and maintain a sexual bond is up to you.

However to those of us who form secure attachments:
'Sexual REJECTION, especially by someone who vowed to "love, honor and cleave unto" you is devastating. It leaves you feeling unattractive and undesirable. You may internalize her rejection and blame yourself by thinking you are not attractive enough; sexy enough, thin enough, smart enough. His/Her actions will give root to unhealthy beliefs about yourself and your value as a person. There is the danger of depression, loss of hope, and there is certainly a sense of shame. Shame over the fact that your own spouse does not desire you. This shame keeps you from sharing your problems with someone else. You find yourself with no support system and the growing belief that there is something terribly wrong with you.'

PA is very nasty covert abuse.

4 myfamily..

"Appointment arranged and I say I still need the information for the Divorce Papers. W: 'Well if that's the way you still want to go fine but shouldn't we wait until after we have seen the (new) counselor you don't know what might come out of it.' Is this PA chain-jerking or MLC cake-eating/clinging to the edge?"

I think it's both!Talk about a mixed message!

To me it sounds like she's saying, "Im wondering if counseling could help us and maybe the papers shouldn't be filed until we go, even though it was my idea to go in regards to help tell our son about the divorce. Im not sure and can't make a choice. I don't want to entirely let you go. But I can't tell you that. So Im going to have you do the emotional work for the both of us. If Im happy with the results I may or may not be upfront about it. If not then I have my escape plan, which is to act like Im not doing what Im actually doing,deny it and therefore make you look and feel crazy'.

Been there done that with xh. When I called him on it he turned it right around and said the same thing! Had no intention of giving me false hope and he was acting the way he thought friends were supposed to act, friendly and that's all he was doing. But if I had to think he was doing that sort of thing to try and get through this divorce then fine!

My xh too would be evasive about the divorce too. He filed yet wouldn't talk to me about anything. Then when things got real and I hired an attorney....oh boy howdy! Spewing and not speaking for 3 months.

Im really beginning to think that the catalyst for the departure is MLc, but the PA has always been there. MLC is making PA FULL THROTTLE now!

Kimmerz you are exactly right. The more I examine the behavioral patterns and the rel. btwn me and XH, the more I see that I was making accomodations for and looking the other way with his P-A tendencies for a majority of the marriage. The MLC just made it come to a level where I stopped taking it, "enough is enough." I think what happened prior to the MLC was that there would be some P-A major thing, then things would smooth over for a long time, and I'd forget all about it. There would be so many happy times I'd just forget it. But when the MLC began, the P-A stuff was cyclical in this every 3rd day sort of manic-depressive state, and that's when it got to be too much.

You will all think I'm nuts for saying this but maybe I need to be THANKFUL that XH went into the MLC, or else I'd be with a P-A person the rest of my life. Bottom line? My father is P-A. My mom has been with him over 40 years and will stand by him till death and has already said she will never remarry. My one sister is also married to a P-A man and since she has kids, she has said she will not break up their family. Both my mom and sister have "difficult" marriages, admittedly, but they feel stuck.

I'm free. But had he not cheated on me, I'd have stuck by him to my own detriment. Someone up there must be looking out for me ;-)

Antonia, We are really on the same page here. As I look back on the past with xh, the PA behavior would come in waves as it was with yours. Like you said something would come up, then it would smooth over and you'd forget about it. That's exactly what happened with us too. The PA behavior can be very layered. I know xh would go through these spells that would just leave me so bewildered and confused. Then it would just stop, and he'd act like nothing ever happened. Life went back to normal and I wouldn't dwell on it because it really wasn't worth the energy.

When this MLC really started to hit, the literal manic/depressive behavior was just too much! I was so worried about him, yet I couldn't live with these mood swings, especially the nasty ones. He still swings. Im still trying to undersand why he's spewed like he has. But talking about the PA here has really helped me understand it so much more.

I just had a thought a few hours ago. Xh was being honest with me for the first time in our lives together, as brutal as it was. He honestly did tell me if he let himself get too close to me, he could get hurt and it would kill him. But why? Why now is he pushing me away the hardest ? The only thing I can figure out is that we had so many emotional things happen in our lives for the last few years, it provoked real feelings in him that require deep thought, and self reflection. Us spouses of PA's will be the ones to do all the emotional work between us, but when it comes to emotional issues outside of the marital relationship, we can't do it for them! I think he realized that and he really was trying to figure it out.

Due to the loss of his job he loved and had for many years, I do know that had to bring on an identity crisis for him. Who was he now without this place? What does he do? Where does he go? Where does he fit in now? But this is a situation I can NOT save the day on. This is his relationship with his job and all that came with it.

I feel the loss of his job truly was an abandonment. But because I couldn't make up for the sense of abandonment when he expected me to do that for him, in his mind I did abandon him.

I too have been thankful he is gone at times. As I look back at how complicated and twisted PA is, and really no hope but for a MIRACLE and that miracle would be for them to be enlightened and choose to change....well life with a person like that is not an authentic life for anyone to live.

The more I can understand this, the sadder I feel for PA people. the abuse and insanity that arises out of the PA behavior is horrible. But for just a moment I put myself in those shoes, and really think about how they must feel in order to really act out this way....I am heart broken for that person.

You said it, Kimmerz. And a little compassion goes a long way in the LBS healing and moving forward, that's for sure.