Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Midlife Crisis MLC or Passive Aggressive or Narcissism

The PA 'logic' is I was denied what I wanted or needed as a child so I am determined not to give you what you want or need.

Empathy, intimacy, sex money, contact, or no contact, divorce reconciliation, doesn't matter it is important to deny you what you want.

Why does doing a 180 sometimes work. It disrupts the PA behavior.

If he is delaying thinking it will make you mad, and you can wait, tell him no hurry no big deal whenever it comes is fine. Watch the fear and confusion on his face! Of course he will have to come up with something else to p!ss you off as he cannot lose.

Yes, I discovered way back that presenting what I thought of as a glass or steel wall, with no chinks, was the best way of dealing with him. Well meaning friends, who had known and liked the person he was [and he underwent a HUGE personality change with ML] persuaded me at various times to be sympathetic and engaged with him. It never ever worked, and now I know why it never would have.

I am usually kind and generous because that is how I want to be, but I have no expectation that this will be reciprocated. But I no longer give him an inch, and I do not communicate other than when there is absolutely no alternative. Not to be pouty, but because I cannot give him a way in. I haven't seen him in nearly two years, although he said 'he wouldn't mind' if I joined him and our adult children for a lunch he gave them just after Christmas. His relationship with them is disastrous, but again they have realised that minimum contact is safest.

I just thought there is no way I am sitting down and playing happy families with this lunatic.

I knew he would delay over the money exchanges and make problems. I have a clear strategy which I will unfold in my own time, and achieve what I need to. There is only one way to deal with this behaviour, and it is contrary to what we want instinctively to do. Firm and absolutely detached, as if they were an exceptionally difficult stranger.

Knowing what is driving this insantiy helps to formulate our responses. Everything will be turned into a power struggle. It is interesting to see how many of these people go ballistic when we get our own lawyer and fight for what is due to us. And it is a fight. The financial deal that my XH proposed to me after a very long marriage was insulting. Yes, I spent a LOT of money on a lawyer, but I ended up so much better off.

Bea,
Over Christmas I went through a power struggle over agreed child support with stbx. Though it wasn't as much as you're dealing with, the principal was the same. PA and Power and control.

He waited till the middle of December, of all months to tell me he couldn't afford to pay me child support. Of course he couldn't pay because his attorney fees went up due to me getting an attorney. Just like you said they go ballistic when we get our own attorneys and stand up for what is legally ours to begin with. I mean I had to find it commical....the excuses he was giving me. My attorney quickly got on his case. Next thing you know he's upset that my attorney is sending him nasty letters, and how else could he feel but personally attacked all the time?

However he quickly did change his tune and has been very compliant since. He's decided to play "nice" for now. No more sand throwing in the sand box.

I've changed my reactions to his behavior. I keep it simple and direct. If he's spewing too much I just leave it alone.

I was reading that narcissistic people (sorry but as far as Im concerned this MLC, and PA have a huge narcissistic factor)seem to respond with firm boundaries, yet given with calm kindness.

Very much like a toddler and a tantrum. They will fight you with everything they've got, tooth and nail, but in actuality what they do crave is boundaries.

And now that I think about it, everytime push came to shove and a big boundary was set with my stbx, he seemed to respond well.

as I look back, I quite making those boundaries because he was an adult. I expected adult behavior from him. When he stopped acting like one, I just didn't bother with putting my foot down and let him twist in the wind.

Hmmmm.

They are pretty unbelievable aren't they, for supposedly grown men. Mine had a spew about it on New Year's day, and then I waited nearly two weeks and sent a firm clear proposal which he basically agreed to [with a few tweaks of course] Now it is back to struggling, in his mind. I am just not getting involved. I do not think they are narcisstic fwiw, but I think PAs display that type of behaviour when stressed. And MLC often seems to be a response to extreme stress of one kind or another.

I struggled for a long time with people telling me he was a narcissist but it never felt right, not because I didn't want to believe it, but mainly because he was capable of building and sustaining relationships for long periods of time, something that real narcissists are usually considered not able to do. Whereas PA types can sustain relationships, of a sort.

on the subject of timing, a couple of years back, my xh waited several months to have another spew at me until two days before I went into hospital for major surgery . The timing was not a coincidence but I didn't handle it well as I was pretty stressed. However I wrote him an angry letter on that occasoin, telling him that what he had just done was unbelievable. And I didn't then hear until the day of our final divorce hearing when he rang up and invited me for lunch!! I declined very civilly.

My lawyer, who has been doing divorce work for over thirty years said she had never encountered anyone like my xh.

I think for me the main narcissistic traits I see that are also possibly PA as well are: a lack of empathy, a general selfishness as well as a tendency towards infidelity.

So I have read this thread 3 times now. I think my H falls into the P A mode. I have felt for years that he withholds intimancy. He says he stayed with me 12 years ago for the kids.

Not sure why, as he doesn't do anything with them unless I'm suggesting it or we are all together. He certainly never got involved in scouts or sports. That was me. Oh wait, ONE TIME he took the pinewood derby track, refurbished it and drove it to several meets.
The past few days he is making sure I know how he has no desire for me. Don't know why he is trying so hard to be mean. I have lost 76 pounds in the last 2.5 years. I am looking amazing.

It seems like he doesn't want me to look amazing. I run into people I haven't seen and they don't recognize me. My own son didn't realize I had walked up to him the other day.

He said to me that when I used to say I was small-boned he didn't understand what that ment. Now he says that he see a petite trim woman and he knows what I ment.

Oh well, maybe someday I will get smart and take my marbles and go find another place to play!

Jealousy is a big part of MLC. They are children and don't want you achieving anything, looking hot, or having fun. Misery loves company and they sure want you to be as unhappy as them. If you are not, they will try to give you more hell.

Tiki -

That's a huge weight loss - congratulations.

When I gained some weight (due to medical issues - I had been slim most of the marriage)my ex was particularly bothered and unsupportive. And I realize now that a big part of that has to do with my ex's own insecurities, and how much emphasis he puts on what other people think of him. If I wasn't perfectly slim, it was somehow a bad reflection on him.

Your ex might resent your weight loss now, because you have taken away from him the handy excuse for his behavior. Now he has to come up with another reason.

You got marbles? It takes stones to admit that!

Hope you have a great day!

Fantastic thread! Thanks for pointing it out to me, Bea. I need to mull over it all.