Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Never thought I'd be here.......part 5

"The devil is in the details..."

No, really... the more detail, the more verbose, the more effort... the more opportunity for the devil to show up in your letter...

lex parsimoniae - Occam's razor: paraphrased as "often the most simple solution, is the correct one"



Do you see how this could be confusing for your W?

She may feel guilty because you still want her in your life and she does not want to be... and THEN... she'll be ANGRY at you for making her feel guilty... and why, oh why, can you not just move forward and be happy... that's what she wants for herself and while she might say she doesn't care about you, she wants that for you, as well... because she does not want to feel guilty about not being in love with you...

Keep it simple, and keep emotions out of it. Go to your logical brain and leave your heart on the shelf for this letter...

Let me say that, again:

Go to your logical brain and leave your heart on the shelf for this letter...

Because THAT is what she asked you for.

I have not read the letter but will say this, the most you can realistically pray and hope for is that a seed is planted.


& that's all...IF a seed is planted and takes roots, YOU will NOT know this until it takes root and sprouts in some way. So take heart b/c while I have hope for you,

I don't see it happening soon.

I think she feels this is her task to do, and she needs to be released to do it and figure out what she wants, values and trusts in life.

Hopefully that will be you.

give her the space and time to let the good memories that exist and the love she once had, resurface in her mind and heart.

Don't block them from resurfacing with your needs for it to happen now.

Step back, GAL and move forward....lovingly

such great posts to you Crimson...

I think your wife may feel you are happier but how do you know that?

And why is that all bad?


If my h and I had divorced in his MLC, and he was still miserable today, I would Not find that attractive, nor would I feel vindictated.

I'd think "still? Why hasn't he learned anything yet?"

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It's mandatory that you create and embrace happiness in your future no matter what she does. KNOW THIS is a strength, not a weakness in you.


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For her to read the letter without a critical eye, means it must be given without request or expecatation from you, and she MUST get that crystal clearly from you...

you are responding to her request and at most a gentle reminder would do--and please put zero blame on her. That would be like blaming your parents for how you took their words and manifested them in your m. That was not their intent...and all you were saying in your earlier posts does not negate her role. But why would YOU point it out?

It's one thing to apportion blame (DO NOT!!!) but it's another to simply own your role in YOUR behavior. Only address that and assume that she will, in time assess her own flaws. (If not, then she's not the loss you fear she is.) In any case, you reviewing and owing YOUR stuff, does nothing to absolve her of flaws or makes her perfect.

stay in your sandbox and work on YOUR stuff...and leave her in hers to do her work
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Best case scenario is that she's open to thinking things MIGHT someday better for you two...

which means different. So your efforts, written or verbal or by action (or all)

have to show CHANGE in you.


I do wish you could express yourself verbally to her and have zero fear of argument or escalation. Take a pill if you have to.

Seriously, I would KNOW that nothing my h could say at that moment would escalate things, and there have been times in our marriage when I was capable of that. This is one of those times for you, imo.

If she rails and rants and goes bonkers on you, then you apologize for upsetting her and you leave....it's low risk of deterioration if you have your armor on, which does not mean your heart is closed.

but I think for now I hope I am just going to hope you can find some peace today.

"She may feel guilty because you still want her in your life and she does not want to be... and THEN... she'll be ANGRY at you for making her feel guilty... and why, oh why, can you not just move forward and be happy... that's what she wants for herself and while she might say she doesn't care about you, she wants that for you, as well... because she does not want to feel guilty about not being in love with you..." - kaffe diem

These are hard lessons to learn...but thank God there are some insightful women here to help us guys out....to help us understand.

"Do you think she would be attracted to someone who is miserable because they're pining for someone?

Or do you think she would be attracted to someone who is happy and enjoying life?" - kaffe diem

Again, this makes perfect sense. Why can't we see this in the midst of the pain?

Hi Crimson,

The advice above is great but I can still imagine you aren't sure whether to give the letter or not.

I may be an idiot - and chances are, I am, given what I've brought down on myself - but I'd be tempted to ask her.

That is, say something like "A couple of days ago you mentioned that you'd like to hear what I said to my parents about... If you're interested, I've written something down/jotted down a few points."

And then you can hand it over if she says Yes.

If she says No, or gets angry, then I'd back off for a while.

But at least you'd have planted a seed that might take root at a later time. And she'd know that you'd been reflecting and working on yourself in a serious way, even if she wasn't prepared to read the full details.

Anyway, just a thought...
NLW.

25 said: "such great posts to you Crimson...I think your wife may feel you are happier but how do you know that? And why is that all bad? If my h and I had divorced in his MLC, and he was still miserable today, I would Not find that attractive, nor would I feel vindicated. I'd think "still? Why hasn't he learned anything yet?""

I feel that she thinks I am happier without her because she TOLD me she thought that - and that she always suspected that would be the case. I guess I see that as bad because if she equates me being happy with her being OUT of my life then she has proven to herself that leaving was a good thing for ME.

25 said: "& that's all...IF a seed is planted and takes roots, YOU will NOT know this until it takes root and sprouts in some way. So take heart b/c while I have hope for you, I don't see it happening soon."

I know. I don't think it will be a quick fix at all. All I can hope is that is doesn't make things worse. Part of me remains hopeful that a seed has already been planted based on what she has seen in me over the last few months. I'm not going to bet my liver on it, but I would imagine that SOMETHING looks and feels different in me through eyes - she has all but said so.

KD Said: "She may feel guilty because you still want her in your life and she does not want to be... and THEN... she'll be ANGRY at you for making her feel guilty... and why, oh why, can you not just move forward and be happy... that's what she wants for herself and while she might say she doesn't care about you, she wants that for you, as well... because she does not want to feel guilty about not being in love with you..."

This ^^^ terrifies me. Though I know it is a possibility - I want to believe that somewhere through all of this there is a tiny sliver of love for me in there someplace.

25 said: "It's one thing to apportion blame (DO NOT!!!) but it's another to simply own your role in YOUR behavior. Only address that and assume that she will, in time assess her own flaws. (If not, then she's not the loss you fear she is.) In any case, you reviewing and owing YOUR stuff, does nothing to absolve her of flaws or makes her perfect."

I haven't the least intent to point a finger at her in this....really, ever. If she wants to bring up her part ever, I will listen - but that sure as HELL won't be brought up in this letter - if it ever makes it way to her. She is free to contemplate her part, but I won't do a thing to lead her there.

KD said: "Do you think she would be attracted to someone who is miserable because they're pining for someone? Or do you think she would be attracted to someone who is happy and enjoying life?"

Well the latter is the clear choice - and I certainly have not shown any more signs of pining. I will say that I miss her in the letter, and tell her how I would do some things differently. I will also tell her that because of the strengthening of the bond between me and S, I know for a fact that I want another child in my life. I won't say "with her", but hope that she will see that she is still the person I want to be with - without groveling.

I fear she WON'T be attracted to someone "enjoying life" because as I said before she will take that to mean her being gone = me being happy, so if she ever thought about coming back it would only make my life worse. Nothing could be further from the truth. How does one effectively make that point?????

NLW Said: "That is, say something like "A couple of days ago you mentioned that you'd like to hear what I said to my parents about... If you're interested, I've written something down/jotted down a few points.""

That ^^^^ is more or less the plan. I'll give it to her and if she chooses to read, which I think she will, then great.

So guys (and girls!) the hard point I am finding is following the BRILLIANT advice that is DB and somehow balancing that against the things that make my wife, my life and my situation unique. I think staying away from R talk or anything close to it has been helpful - at least it has helped stabilize things. I am concerned that since once of her MAJOR complaints was that I was disconnected that staying too far away would only make that case stronger - especially since she thinks I am "happy" right now being away from her.

For some reason I can get the notion of letting her know how I feel right now out of my heart. Divine messaging or my ego? No clue. But it feels like something I have to do right now. I know the chances of it making things "better" are slim to none.....but as ya'll have noted, at best I can plant a seed. Maybe giving her a tiny glimpse into my head right now isn't a bad thing.

I am moving forward....lovingly. But my heart still wants my family together....eventually. If I go back to the original question posed by Sandi (I think) I need to ask "does this move me closer or farther away from my goal?" - with this, I am not sure 100% - but I don't think it moves me too much farther away.

Thanks, everyone.

"I fear she WON'T be attracted to someone "enjoying life" because as I said before she will take that to mean her being gone = me being happy, so if she ever thought about coming back it would only make my life worse. Nothing could be further from the truth. How does one effectively make that point?????"

This is something I struggle with too, particularly as my H insists that he has 'ruined my life' and is a 'bad' person.

Crimson, this may be something we just can't communicate convincingly with words. As 25 says, Time + Consistent Actions may be the key here...

But keen to hear others' take on this.

I think it's unattractive to everyone, regardless of the circumstances, for someone to be miserable because they are pining for someone. You can twist and contort this FACT however you want in order to meet your needs or convince yourself of something you want to believe or because of your own insecurities. The fact above remains true...and it doesn't ceast to exist just because it's denied. Being miserable and sad because you are pining for someone IS NOT attractive to others...ESPECIALLY to the person you are pining for!

People are attracted to others who are happy and enjoying life. Period. This is a universal truth. A fact. Regardless of the circumstances. Twisting and contorting this fact in order to meet your own needs, wants, or insecurities doesn't change it's truth either!