Things are sounding good WHG. I totally agree that it is not a bad thing W got madder. Also agree that you should make space FOR YOURSELF if W doesn't move. As for the Amazon Prime thing, try to stop that sort of thing. Express shipping on Amazon is cheap. Cut the strings.
Why do you think there might not be a rabbit hole in your own back yard?
There is a great book about Lifetraps that might be useful. Take the focus off of W. Ask always what works FOR YOU right now.
Fundamentally I don't know if I'm worth spending time with or being married to. Hence I find a "fixer upper" who will have a lower standard of acceptance. I remember when my W and I started dating that I would think "she's a single mom with two little kids... she's probably willing to 'settle' [for me]." Part of it goes to looks and part of it goes to how I've valued myself. I've long required a partner to validate who I am and what I'm worth.
What DOES validate you ?
Those are the questions that I want you to ask yourself W....
That quote says more than you can imagine. You had asked HOW you were controlling in your situation earlier. From this, I can see that you wanted total control of your marriage. Your Marriage wasn't a want, it was a need for you.
Why are you incapable of validating and defining your own life ?
Why did you expect HER level of tolerance to be so low , when YOUR level was so high ???
Why was your level so high , with unspoken expectations ?
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It came out through my dismissive attitude of her concerns. Of me trashing and judging her friends and her family. It came out as being terribly critical of her, even when I thought I was Mr. Supportive. Most tragically perhaps it came out as passive agressive anger at our stepson.
I don't believe I ever consciously was mean or vicious to SS. But deep down I knew SS is mom's baby, and attacking him was the best way to extract my revenge. And I did... over and over... often cloaked in the disguise of "hard but good parenting".
So how does this change ? How are you different moving forward ?
Criticism is the number one sign of being controlling. It MAY appear to be harmless, but it isn't. When you criticize, you are trying to change the behavior of someone else.
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I took care of everything. I took care of stuff before she even knew it needed to be taken care of. I cooked, cleaned, shopped, did the budgeting, IT, outdoor stuff, child care... all of it.
And you wonder WHY she feels the need to be on her own now ?
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So that's the guy who I was before. Who am I now? A work in progress. I am trying to be less judgmental... not easier after a life of judging, but working. I find myself talking with my W about mutual friends and it's so easy to slide back into judgment of them... but who the hell am I to judge?
A few months does not make up for years of this....
And even though you FEEL as if you have killed these responses in yourself.....
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My response was, "well that would fix that... move when you want, February, March not much difference and it would allow both of us to get on with our lives." She got madder after that. Oh well.
This is more of the same Controlling, Passive Aggressive, Insecure behavior.
It is still...YOUR fix, for HER problems.
How do you break that chain ?
I know in the grand scheme of the universe, these appear to be small things, and through normal interactions, they appear relatively harmless. But over the course of time, 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1..........will still equal infinity.
WHG, I could sit here and post all day about the responses, or the daily things. I will not, and have never done this.
I am more of a ...teach a man to fish, rather than a give a man a fish....person.
The responses you give, and the behaviors you display, have been developed over a lifetime. And until you really take a look inside, and really CHOOSE to be different, you are not going to change.
I applaud your first steps in this process, and I see you really wanting to understand these things.
Look, we -as LBSs- have choices we can make during this time. We can choose to be a victim , and continue a lifetime of having things happen TO us. Filling our lives with anger, and regret.
OR
We can choose to really take a look at the things that contributed to the demise of our marriage. Changing the pattern of behavior the WE have used over our lifetime.
We have a chance to break the chains that hold us to being a certain way.
because, as you said, I have no doubt you will find another "fixer-upper" (pretty offensive by the way, coming from a single mom with two kids before my relationship...and since I am not married, I am technically a single mom with 3 kids now--one special needs) and the cycle will repeat
Hmmm, good posts Mach. But I really disagree that agreeing with an option that w put on the table (moving out sooner) and expressing how that would work for him too is controlling.
Controlling to me would be him trying to find a way either to make that happen or prevent it. That was NOT what the convo was about, it was about the kids. If anything his w was being controlling with the threats and WHG did NOT let her control him. He chose not to go into cowering, appeasing, subservient role. Having an XH myself who was stuck in that role, I think it was a great move and a big sign of growth for WHG to step out of it.
His w was angry that ge didnt follow the script. Her threat was supposed to make him collapse and kiss butt. It didn't. Which is good for BOTH of them.
Hmmm, good posts Mach. But I really disagree that agreeing with an option that w put on the table (moving out sooner) and expressing how that would work for him too is controlling.
I agree 100% Oldtimer....
You have a very valid disagreement.
I guess I could have been more clear by stating that, even having that discussion once again, is the controlling part of that.
I'm going to chime in about the kids issue. You've mentioned this over and over and over again. How it will hurt them and you failed in your job to protect them.
First of all, your kids will look to you for guidance on how to react. You've already set this up as the worst thing in the world for them. Your reactions will make this harder for the kids, you are part of creating your own worst case scenario. Don't misinterpret me, I'm not saying that divorce is okay for the kids and nearly every study says that divorce hurts the kids, but your reaction to it will serve a model for your kids. You make think they can't sense it, but they can.
It sounds like you use this to view yourself as somehow better than your W. I mean how could SHE do this it the Kids? You take the fall, but then don't really follow up.
Also, one job as a parent is to protect your kids, but another job is to prepare them to handle adversity. I don't know about you, but I don't send my kids out to play in a padded suit because I want to protect them. I want them to fall because I want to teach him how to get back up again. I'm doing a huge disservice to him if I protect them from everything. because I can't and what happens when I can't protect him. how is he helped.
There are things out of my control. I know in 6-10 years a little girl will come along and break my poor son's heart. I can't stop that. He will fail at a sport, get a bad grade, deal with the death of a grandparent or close relative. I can't stop that, I can't protect them from that pain. What I can do is teach him HOW TO GET UP.
My parents divorced when I was 7 or so. I know what it's like to be a kid who's parents split up.
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
I don't see that either. How so? W announced they would tell the kids on Sunday, pretty much blindsiding WHG. To try to follow up that announcement with a rational discussion in a public place does not seem in the least bit controlling.
Mostly WHG has subordinated his needs to create N environment in which all W's perceived needs were met seamlessly while ignoring his own needs which led to extremely unattractive acting out. But he has not tried to dictate her needs, but meet them by controlling their shared environment to suit her.
On the other hand, his w clearly understands how to control him--sadness, then annoyance, then anger to get him to rollover again. Not saying this is conscious on her part, but it is a pretty clear pattern. If WHG is the parent figure, w too often is the tyrannical child -- violet in Charlie Nd the chocolate factory if I have my characters straight.
To try to move away from that to have an adult conversation about the kids' welfare is'nt.
If WHG wanted to control that, he has a huge number of trump cards to play that he hasn't even put on the table -- W's current substance abuse issues, her various infidelities, etc. A person trying to control the other would have had that ammo locked and loaded as needed to get his way.
WHG tried to be an adult while his w threw a tantrum.
As for you wgh, screwing around on the Internet on dating and prostitution sites without W's knowledge before any talk of separation, probably while MBing, simply is cheating. So try to get a grip on that. Don't shy away from it. Nd my guess is W knew about it too, which is a big ewwwww and would make her feel both abandoned And valueless.
My subordinating XH acted out similarly. It isn't a matter of occasional or frequent MBing with or without porn. It is a matter of you having your own little private sex world as a way to act out against w. I can't begin to tell you how bad that is for a M. The best thng to do is try your best to own it. If you reconcile, b honest about it and unburden yourself at that point. Too much weight otherwise.
Wgh seems to me to be about as far from creAting a worst case scenario in his head as I've seen here. He expects the kids to do well and lead good lives. He is way o er optimistic about what co-parenting will be like. He consistently tells himself and w that the kids will be fine.
His concern is with telling the kids prematurely so that they have to live in a shared household with that knowledge for months. There is no real point to it that I can see except that w has a selfish psycholgical need to put a new nail in the coffin. She could find OTHER ways to create the psychological space she wants. I don't think wgh was trying to Pre-coddle the kids, but rather taking reasonable interest in their welfare. Just a few weeks ago w, WHG and the counselor agrees on a reasonable timetable. Trying to return to that timetable after W's decree isn't over the top.
