Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers WHG: Down the rabbit hole I guess

-- You don't see a way for her to stop relying on you? Quit letting her. Geez. She can't be reliant on you unless you participate.

-- Why don't you think that her being healthier will be better for the kids? What you wish is that she were someplace else in her life in which she could do that without separation and possible divorce. I'm sure she'd like that too. She isn't though. You aren't accepting how things are. You merely aren't arguing with her about it. She wants a better life. Her path to that life right now leads away from yours. That is just how it is.

-- What did you say to her exactly about telling the kids. Did you merely say "I'm not OK with that," or did you say more? Did you challenge her? "TELLING THE KIDS ON 1/8 WILL NEEDLESSLY HARM THE KIDS. W, if you need more emotional space, I am great with that, I need it too, but NOT at the expense of the kids welfare. I am fine if you move out earlier than 4/1. But it is SELFISH of you to push to tell the kids about our separating when you have not yet gotten yourself into a position to move out. WHEN you have a signed lease, then we can tell them two weeks prior to your move out date. There is NO REASON to put them through the strain of living in the house under the looming separation for months. It is flat out WRONG. The kids deserve better. You already know that. What can you possibly think is GOOD about putting them through additional suffering? WHAT is your motivation? Convenience for you with respect to packing time is NOT a good enough answer. Work on your packing list on your vacation, organize stuff. You can get it packed in one or two days CLOSE to your move-out date. I'll be happy to help you get things packed up. But it is NOT OK to disrupt the kids' lives for months so that you can save a day or two of vacation time."

Or, you might try FIRST to say that you are deeply concerned about S and her kids and that before you tell them you both need to talk to a family therapist together. Then talk to the family therapist first to let them know what is going on with the push for an early disclosure and her wish to pack.

And have such conversations in a public place. Stop the private conversations at home.

BTW, week to week childcare plans will NOT work when you are separated. Not sure why you can't set up a schedule now.

Because when she's living in the house we still share the bills. Yes, we could set up a rent structure I imagine. She "rents" the house from me... or part of the house. I'm thinking financial reliance, not any other type.

I told her that a) I was not ok with 1/8, b) that it is not what the C's have recommended, and c) that doing it purely for logistical reasons wasn't good enough. Her response was simply that she needs to do it and is going to. Period. I believe she wants to do it because it's the last big thing she is scared of. She wants to get it over and done with so she can move to the next step.

When I say week-to-week childcare I mean that it changes each week what days need what. We can typically do it out 6 weeks at a time, but no week is like the next due to her work schedule changing. And since she's in a union shop, if they need to change something (i.e. the night shift nurse is out for quite a while now due to a serious medical issue) she gets hit first since she's low-man on the union totem pole.

I guess I don't get the conversations in public part...

I agree with your comment pretty much 100%... I'm just not sure how I become more accepting. I know that she is done. I accept that she is done. When she slept elsewhere in the house, I didn't care. When she came home at 6am I didn't care. It's not that I didn't argue about it... I genuinely didn't care. When she complained about how hard it will be to afford things on her own I didn't offer one ounce of solution. She goes to her friend's house for hours on end... I don't care.

I do accept that she's done. Maybe I just suck at cutting her off. I don't know. When she starts talking about her realizations of her issues I listen. Why do I do that? I don't know, but I do. At the same time we can be talking about the kids and in two second we're onto some issue she is having.

I wish this was more black and white.

The reason to have the conversation in public is to (1) keep it less emotional, (2) limit the drama, and (3) have it where the children can't overhear or experience the immediate fall out.

"I told her that a) I was not ok with 1/8, b) that it is not what the C's have recommended, and c) that doing it purely for logistical reasons wasn't good enough. Her response was simply that she needs to do it and is going to. Period."

Well, I wouldn't accept that "period" so readily. Tell her you respect her wish to be out of the M, have space, and be independent. Tell her you think it is great she is taking responsibility for her own happiness, you understand her need to move forward. But, it is NOT ok to USE the kids purely as a means to FEEL like she is moving forward. It serves no purpose other than helping HER feel a little better and make packing more convenient. NEITHER of those things justifies what will amount to torturing 3 children for months. Telling them early does NOT get her out of the house sooner. It just lets HER FEEL greater distance from you. That is really HER problem and it is not right for her to use the kids to solve it. Ask her to please take a step back and consider what she is getting from it and to lovingly balance that against the cost to the kids. Ask her how she thinks it could in ANY way be better to tell the kids so early when she doesn't even have a place to live?

I'm gonna call BS on this one WHG.....

IF you didn't care, you wouldn't be here.

How important is it for you , to be "right" ???

Maybe "don't care" isn't the right term Mach... but it's not BS. I really am not wrapped around what she does these days. New Year's Eve she came home at 6am. I only know that because she later told me. I woke up at 5am and wondered for a moment if she was home. Since she had been sleeping in SD's room I had no clue. It's a seven foot walk down to that room, but I didn't bother to look. I didn't care. I went back to bed.

Three months ago I would've been up until I couldn't keep my eyes open anymore stalking her Facebook page and checking her phone records... wondering what and where she was.

But why bother? It doesn't really matter. Her behaviors are simply a symptom of a larger underlying issue. Whatever she does is related to that. And that's not meant to sound pathological... it's just that she has bigger issues going on with trying to be happy. So the things she does is related to that. Therefore, it doesn't really matter. Once she finds a way to be happy she will continue doing whatever it is that makes that happen.

And while that all sounds neat and clean we all know it isn't. Because while one piece of your life may come in to balance, other parts may fall out. Will moving out make her happy? Perhaps it will. But will the impact on the kids bring in a different type and level of unhappiness? Perhaps it will. Will not having me as a husband make her happier? Perhaps it will. Will being alone as a single mom create unhappiness? Perhaps it will.

I don't know that an in-house separation will meet her needs for independence and self-discovery. If it does... well, great. If it doesn't... well, at least we can say we tried.

Today in my IC session my counselor asked me, "if W and I didn't have a son or step-kids in the picture, would I pursue her? Would I hold the door open for her return?" And I really couldn't answer that. My first inclination is that, no, I wouldn't. I would move on. But I'm not sure if that's my protective reaction to rejection and pain talking or if it is a reflection of my true feelings.

Of course that's a fantasy world. We do have a S and we do have step-kids. I do believe we could have a M together and that having that M, while it would take work, would benefit the kids. So give all that I do care. I do care about my M and my family. But the day to day stuff she does is just the trees to me... I'm trying to focus on the forest I think.

Shoot... I didn't answer the "being right" question. That is a problem for me... I've long had a need to be right. I fight that even now. I find myself overdoing the parenting role simply to "the right" one in how the kids are treated in all this.

I have been working on the need to be right and my righteousness. When you're doing that you're also judging which is a quality I know my W does not like about me.

Okay, then we go back and forth around the "don't care" issue.....

IF....this is a quality that SHE doesn't like about you...

Who cares ?

So F her for a minute,.....

Is this a quality that you like in yourself ????

No, it's not. It turns people off and alienates them. It makes even minor issues into battles that must be won. I find that I win many Phryrric victories. It also doesn't usually get me any closer to a solution since I've been putting so much energy into being right.

I can see that is something that you have struggled with. Knowing the outcome BEFORE all of the information is out there.

WHG, I just see a lot of you being defensive in your answers , and for every point, there is a "but" , or an excuse of why this behavior continues.

Do you ever remember, in having an argument or discussion with your spouse, knowing the response before she spoke ? Or thinking of your response while she was talking ?

One of the wisest things I ever learned was to...

Seek to understand, then you will be understood


Recognizing the patterns, and killing those behaviors are things that will not fail YOU on this path. Whatever the outcome of your Marriage is, you will have benefited from the lessons that you have the potential to learn.


I apologize for getting off track here this afternoon, and I hope you can look past this interruption for a few minutes.

This is a pattern I have seen on your threads.

And I don't want you to lose valuable posts to you because the information hits too close to home for you to step back and see what the poster is trying to get across to you.