Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Midlife Crisis Please explain the justification

Hey there ...

Your question re MLC ...

The folks over here in MLC-land as we like to call it, have a pretty specific idea of what they mean by MLC. We're not talking your stereotypical "oh wait I'm getting old let's change our hair color and buy a sportscar" idea of a mid life crisis. Back in October, some of the regular posters in Newcomers and some of the regular posters here in MLC had a really good debate/discussion going on about the differences in approach, advice etc between the two forums. I made the following post, which I think explains it fairly well ...

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It strikes me just how much we all have in common as opposed to our differences.

Let's take MLC out of the equation for a minute...

Over here we preach detachment, boundaries, regaining one's sense of self and truly taking a look inside to own your own faults and shortcomings, to make changes which are consistent with your own sense of self and based on the truth (some of which comes from valid and real complaints by the WAS). We preach doing this in order to make huge, potentially life altering decisions from a place of compassion, understanding and peace as opposed to making those same decisions based on anger, hurt, resentment and pride.

Yes, we see all kinds of noobs (and others ) with poor boundaries who are reacting (or not reacting at all) out of fear. I also see it in Newcomers and Infidelity, because ultimately, all the advice in the world won't change the behaviour until the LBS in question is ready.

Personally, I don't think everyone who's posting in MLC has a spouse in Crisis (midlife, quarterlife, identity or otherwise!) ... but that is not my call to make. I can only tell you what I've seen and experienced.

There is a large amount of anecdotal evidence which supports the idea of a "personal life crisis". The real kicker seems to be the emotional trauma experienced in adolecense WITHOUT the support and coping skills to properly process the event. I'm sure most people have these experiences, and I'm also sure that the trigger event can be much less "traumatic" than other events which do NOT lead to PLC for certain individuals. The pre-PLCer experiences this event, and then suppresses it, never learning proper coping skills as they move forward into adulthood.

As adults we all face trials and tribulations. Childrearing, financial pressure, family issues, you name it. Lots of us live in marriages built on habit and familiarity, taking our partners and ourselves for granted. At some point (frequently after another traumatic event), ALL of us feel like we are getting older and question what we want out of life. Then we look for answers. Some transition through this without as much hardship. Many decide to escape the "harsh" reality of aging/boredom and look elsewhere for their youth to be recreated. These folks are capable of looking at their lives and making choices but until they are held accountable, they don't. And then there is the group, IMO, that are not currently capable of looking inside themselves - regardless of the boundaries and consequenses they face because those consequences are much less painful then the internal closet-cleaning required to reconcile their issues. Childhood sexual, physical and/or emotional abuse, parental alcoholism, sudden death of a loved one, abandonment, neglect ... any or many never dealt with, never counselled, which simmer into a profound depression we call a "crisis". PLCer's, IMO, can not face their current issues until they go back (often literally, via regression) and deal with the emotional devastation they felt as adolecents.

Both sandboxes deal with the same symptoms. Yes, any infidelity is traumatic and abusive to the LBS. No it should not be tolerated or condoned. But over here we advocate getting yourself to a place where you are making decisions from a truthful, compassionate place - and yes, that takes some time. Once there, do what you want. Stand, don't stand. Wait, don't wait. Walk, don't walk. But be clear about what you are doing and WHY. RESPOND to situations instead of REACTING.

Much of what you folks see as "doormat" are LBS's still trying to get themselves to a place where they are ready to set and enforce boundaries. It's the same in all the sandboxes boys. If Puppy were here, he'd tell you ... I was no different in Newcomers long before I found the MLC board. I was not ready to live with the consequences of my boundaries so I was unable to enforce them. I learned that skill here, as a result of getting real with myself about my beliefs, my dealbreakers (ie Pup's Boundaries of Personal Integrity) and my core values.

No one over here wants to see anyone "Standing" by letting their spouse cake-eat, be abusive, create greater financial difficulty, etc. "Standing" (and for the record I am not a fan of all the terminology) is about owning your own values, standing up for what you believe in, setting appropriate boundaries and generally "getting a life" ... and I don't mean hitting the clubs on a Saturday night. GAL is supposed to be about LIVING and moving forward.

What we refer to as standing is really not very different from what you guys tell the LBS to do in the other forums. LIVE as though they are not coming back. We advocate not dating for obvious reasons (Robx if I remember correctly you disagree with this one, but Time I believe I read that you do not agree with dating until the divorce is actually final so even outside the MLC board there are a variety of opinions) and we advocate compassion in that we don't turn into pr!cks when dealing with our WAS.

MLC, or whatever you want to call it, is not an excuse for bad behaviour, but I do see it as an explanation for a set of self- and family destructive behaviours displayed by many. Doesn't mean we shouldn't detach, protect ourselves, move forward with our lives. I've used the cancer analogy before: I was challenged ... if my H had cancer would I stand by him? I said well, if that cancer caused him to engage in those same self and family destructive behaviours, maybe not. But I would certainly have compassion about the illness driving his behaviour. I would certainly acknowledge that he must be in obscene pain to engage the way he had. And then I would live my life. Maybe I would hope the cancer got cured and hold out for reconciliation while moving forward, maybe not. My choice. Based on understanding and compassion for the truth of the situation.

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Peace
PEI

Hey Pei,

good explanations for the majority of MLCers but when I thought about the potential events that happened in h's life, and there were many

I could say almost say the same about MY life and childhood, in nearly all ways.

If it helps someone as an LBSer to cope with things, to believe it's an MLC I say great. My one criteria that holds water to me even now, is that if other things they are doing are new and truly out of their character, not merely new hobbies but different in character, than before.

When we buy new clothes and change our hair, that's external stuff we do to visibly show we are GAL...and it's healthy.

But what I saw was that my h was a spendthrift before his MLC and for over 20 years he paid bills ahead of time and never let finance charges accrue on our credit cards, etc...so a year into the MLC he stopped paying ALL bills except the mortgage and forgot to tell me...so that was weird and out of character)...and NOT fun. There are other examples but that one was huge.

Here's my concern w/lengthy discourse on MLC (and I mean no offense b/c your post has great insight and is worth reposting on the MLC forum somewhere

but my feelings are mixed in w/my own personal regrets about choices that I made, which I now think were in error-based on the concept of MLC.

Saying the WAS is in MLC sometimes keeps the LBSer from doing their own personal work to improve

and sometimes attaching the label keeps their focus on the WAS instead of themselves, where it belongs.

And for ME, I spent so much time wondering if my h was in MLC or a WAS or what, and I just asked a lot of questions with NO GOOD answers...
and then I repeated them...a lot.

Like I could not take the exit ramp off the "WHY??? Freeway".

and I could/should have spent that time GAL much sooner, doing my 180a and creating a new beautiful life for me and the kids....

(which, ironically MIGHT have attracted h home earler?)

so there's a lot of that from my story that I see in others'. And it's as if, as long as we label the behavior,

we must not be responsible for any of the situation...NOT TRUE.

What I realized in finally seeing how I played a role in our marriages problems, was that

I was now empowered.

B/c if you are one of those rare near perfect spouses, and there are some but I wasn't one of them,

and you still get abandoned, that's a terrifyingly powerless place to be.

It's why I say the more you blame the WAS, the less power you have.


So I conceded and then embraced the role I played in the sense that it meant i could DO something to change ME and therefore change the dynamic.

Make sense?

Finally, I don't know if we have any empirical data that suggests MLCer have a better chance or reconciling than WASs, (therefore what difference does it make?)

The GAL and 180s are still the same no matter what...

I think there is anecdotal evidence that women who leave tend to return less often than men. It still supports that WASs only come back if they believe the marriage can be better and different than before. SO the LBSer has a job to do as far as demonstrating that possibility. IN THEM first, meaning the LBSer changes first...

Has that been your experience?

I've explored that elsewhere in depth. But I don't want to hijack the thread.


great post Pei.

(continued hijack )

Hey 25...

I completely agree that the events that seem to be present in the lives of MLCers as children or adolecents do, in fact, seem to be present for most, if not, all of us. My point was not that their situations, experiences or circumstances were unique. What I was pointing out was that it seems to be the lack of coping skills at this early age, not the "traumatic event", which causes them to suppress their emotions etc, and that this is the early warning sign (hind sight is always 20/20 eh!).

I do actually completely agree that far too much time is spent using MLC as an excuse to be stuck. The focus needs to shift away from the WAS, and onto the LBS ... as you've pointed out many times, for the LBS's own mental and physical health (with the cool side effect of potentially attracting back your WAS).

The other point I wanted to address, was that I hope you didn't think I was implying that someone's MLC was a Hall Pass on their own behaviour and that it was reason to put all the blame for the breakdown in the marriage on the WAS? Not even close.

My experience, in a nutshell (zip it Mach!), has shown me how powerful it is to know yourself. I didn't before, not really. And I hid behind insecure yet controlling behaviours for a long time. That's no one's fault but mine and I take full responsibility. I contributed to the state my marriage was in when the bomb dropped, no doubt about it. Knowing that set me on a path of self discovery (albeit stunted and staggered and sometimes kicking and screaming ) that has made me successful ... even without a restored marriage. I have very little tolerance left for folks who prefer a victim mentality. Nor do I care much for an attitude of entitlement. The quote "if you don't like something change it, and if you can't change it, change how you think about it" has become my mantra.

It's been approx 2 years since my bomb (I'd have to look up the date and I don't feel like it lol) and I am not the same woman. I know myself, who I am and what I want. I am comfortable in my own skin (and working towards shrinking it ). I've moved to a duplex that is sweet and homey for my kids and I. My ex and I share a really good parallel 50/50 parenting arrangement (MOST of the time!). I've forgiven him and OW - who is now a really kind, loving step-mom to my kids. She loves them and they love her (and her D8 - who has, incidentally been for a sleepover at my house). I'm regaining my focus at work and enjoying my job again. I've dated, and am relearning that piece of it ... also enjoying the process ... in short ... I love my life. And I wouldn't trade one second of it for a different outcome. Not the pain, the struggle, the heartache or the journey. And I know it's not over yet ... I'm a work in progress

Thanks for the post ... and by the way, thank you for all you do around these parts ... I too have learned a lot from reading your posts to others!

Peace
PEI

Hoppin

I didn't read your thread in Newcomers. I might get over there to do that.

I have always said call it whatever you want. MLC? I guess you see some similarities with some WAS.

I think maybe pointing to a reason can help. My W? childhood sexual abuse.

Reason she is in crisis? Yup. Excuse? No f-ing way.

That is the danger that 25 speaks of. Don't get caught up in solving their problems. Whatever you decide to call them.

YOU DID contribute to the demise of your M. The sooner you accept that and get busy on the why's in the mirror the better off you'll be.

What you have to figure out quick is:

Are you going to let yourself and your choices be defined by the actions or reactions of your W?

Or

Will you decide what you believe in yourself. Decide what you meant when you said your vows. Decide that when you look in the mirror DESPITE what your W is choosing right now...

That you see a man living his own choice based on his own values.

You can be victim or victor and what is cool is you get to decide.

But it is not ground that is easily tread.

What are you willing to do if you are not guaranteed your M can be saved?

The only statistic you control is whether you save yourself.

And maybe. MAYBE. Your W will see that man you aspire to be and decide to save your M with you.

How can you get busy on that?

WHG---

What a great post! We have similar sitch's re: W's...

When I first started lurking here I would not have "got" it....4 months later....I "get" it...your post should be stickied...



T^2

ooops, sorry, wrong user...I follow(ed) both WHG and your threads and posts closely, TG...got mixed up (which is par for the course for me these last few months)...