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Well, it was an interesting day to say the least.

She's angry. Very, very angry. We had some disagreements on custody exchange. I thought I was getting him Thursday - she declined, I didn't make a big deal of it. I asked if I could get him today (Friday) and she responded she wanted a Saturday AM exchange. Of course, that would have meant she would have had him 5 or 6 of the last 7 days. I drew the line and politely objected. As she would not really talk or respond, I had to go through my lawyer (which I didn't want to do). She received a note from my attorney noting my objections to her custody proposal and explaining why her objections to mine were false (fact based, not opinion) My lawyer concluded with a note stating that she had had him for the last several days and my request for Friday night wasn't unreasonable. I am guessing that set her off. I received a flaming e-mail that basically said:

"What is your plan to get him? When and where? I suggest the baby sitter to keep the contact between us at a minimum. I am disappointed that you will not consider my opinions/proposals. However, I am not surprised since that was always the dynamic in our former marriage."

She clearly was taking a shot there, certainly out of anger and frustration. I did not respond in kind. I simply asked her to tell me specifically what she disliked about my plan, and offered to do the same for her. She never did.

About 10 minutes later, I felt this would be a good opportunity for a 180. I told her that if she was that upset about not having him tonight, she can just bring him to me Saturday as she proposed. I did this to try to keep the peace. I also said I would try her proposed plan for one week to see how it goes. She replied by saying just go get the baby tonight as per your lawyer. She never responded to the request to implement her plan. The 180, as I saw it, was that she always thought I had to get my way (though I do not agree) so I offered for her to have hers instead. Not sure if that was a good idea or not.

It is obvious that she is furious with me over this issue, and honestly - I hate to see her upset - even though she is my WAW. I have decided that I am going to meet her anger with love, understanding and calm - I just don't want to be angry anymore. I didn't take the bait when she took that cheap shot at me in her e-mail. I need peace with this sitch. I am calm, surprisingly calm. Maybe because my boy is sleeping soundly upstairs.

I still sorely want to DB, but man, she is so angry right now it seems there is nothing that I can do to move the ball forward at all right now. How do I handle this? How do I handle a WAW in her own condo, that is so mad at me right now it is unbelievable? Do I just sit here, be calm and wait for her to come down a bit or is this evidence that my sitch is beyond repair? I know patience is key here, but at the moment I feel like she will be this mad forever.

I know I have said this before - but I think the reality of what she has done/is doing is hitting her. It is tough to be in a small foreign condo without your son. Heck, it's hard for me to be in this house without him. It really hurts. I think when she is with him she is happy - or at least "happier", but when she is gone and it is just her and new surroundings it becomes torture. Just a guess. Maybe her way of dealing with that anger and hurt is lashing out with me.

Please - I need all the advice and encouragement I can get!

Crimson

Well, as part of my GAL activities I had a small bunch of friends over yesterday to help me decorate the house for Christmas. Had food, cocktails, etc. - everyone had a great time, including my son.

I was wondering as the lights and such went up how long it would be before W asked for some Christmas decorations - couple hours later, in the middle of the get together, I get a "can I get some of my Christmas decorations, kiss the baby for me" text. I didn't respond. Frankly, we've been together so long it's hard to tell whose decorations belong to who.

Starting the holiday season without her being around has been tough. But having friends over to help took the edge off. I want my son to have a good Christmas despite our sitch.

As a GAL activity I also volunteered to participate in a clinical research study for a new medication for a specific kidney disease. Trying to help others.

Keeping busy has been kinda hard, but I am sure trying. Over the past week or two I have been feeling better. The books and this board have helped. I remain hopeful, but want to concentrate on me as well. Right now, there is nothing I can do with WAW but maintain my distance.

Still looking for input on post above ^.

Crimson

Crimson..
Im fairly new to the forum and your spouse sounds similar to mine..angry and bitter.
I have found that no matter what I do my H will be angry and take shots at me...they look for a reason to be angry i think because if there not they have to face what they are doing and they do NOT want to do that..so anything we say or do is turned into something that sets them off..
I have decided to go dark big time because i cant take the emotional abuse anymore...i refuse to be a punching bag for my H and he will just have to find someone else to be angry at.
so for now im avoiding all contact unless it is a drastic emergency regarding our S. Im hopeing that this will calm his anger enought to start a new relationship. who knows, it will def make me feel better to not get beat up on everytime we talk or have any contact..
just my 2cents...hope things get better for you...the holidays are hard, stay strong

Thanks, ITM.

I think I am pretty much doing the same thing in terms of going darker than normal. It is obvious that there is nothing that I can do to make her "not angry". She can really take some nasty little shots when she is mad, and I don't care to expose myself to that right now. It's really the first time in awhile that I have had no desire to talk to her at all. Maybe there is a therapeutic component to LRT/going dark. Still, oddly enough, I miss her - but I can only do and take so much.

I wouldn't classify her as emotionally abusive at all, but when her anger hits a certain level she can really bite. Puts me in an odd space, because I really don't know how to DB when we are here. Guess it will just take patience for her to stop being so mad.

Crimson

So I hoisted my son into the backpack and we went on a nice hike in the desert late this morning. I am learning to enjoy my time with him and not think too much about my W when we are together. Still, there are moments that creep into my head when I can almost see her here with us and hear her laughing along. I miss her tremendously in those moments and wonder what she is doing at the time.

It's Sunday night and I have managed to not communicate with her since Friday. That's a pretty decent stretch for me - I had to fight the urge to send pictures of the baby but I was able to resist.

I struggled today with the notion of how much she must miss being away from him (as do I when he is gone). How in the world does she view that pain as "worth it" to be away from me? I am not perfect, nor am I the perfect husband - but I was the best I could be - never abusive, insulting, cared for her and the baby, and so on. Granted, I can look in the rearview mirror now and see some things that I could have done or done better - but I have a hard time seeing how those things could result in the end of a marriage.

I hope this time apart gives her time to reflect, time to think and time to just stop being angry and viewing me as the centerpiece of her unhappiness in life. In the meantime, I am fighting every natural urge to reach out to her in the name of LRT. I can only hope that it is effective on some level.

Crimson

"Granted, I can look in the rearview mirror now and see some things that I could have done or done better - but I have a hard time seeing how those things could result in the end of a marriage."

Crimson - after reading some of your posts I see you are giving your W plenty of space and you seem to be doing a great job in the GAL category. But, I wonder based upon your comment above just how much introspection you have done to really get to the root of those things that have played a role in driving your W away.

Unless I missed it, I see some evidence of 180's but nothing that would suggest that you are focusing on those real important issues that have been problematic in your relationship. So you say that when you look in the rear view mirror there are some things you could have done better. What are they? Just as important, what things could you have done not better, but different? These are two separate things that both require deep, inward reflection on your part.

"I hope this time apart gives her time to reflect, time to think and time to just stop being angry and viewing me as the centerpiece of her unhappiness in life."

I'm sure your W is reflecting and so forth but if you hope to have her back in your life, you are going to have to do more than just give her space and GAL. She has to believe that coming home is going to be better than where she is and more importantly, better than it was before she left. So what are YOU doing to make that a reality?

"...I am fighting every natural urge to reach out to her in the name of LRT. I can only hope that it is effective on some level."

Keep fighting that urge. It is an important component of DB'ing. When you start doing those MEANINGFUL 180's combined with your GAL and the space you are giving her, then you may begin to see signs of her heart softening a bit.

But, beware! If/when you start to see signs, you need to keep doing what you are doing. Don't fall into the trap that so many others on this board do when they sense a glimmer of hope and then snuff it out with a backslide. Just keep doing and keep going and maybe, just maybe, things will turn in your direction.

Thank you for your reply, 2TP. You make some very solid points.

Here is my problem - all of the issues that were problematic in our relationship have been my focus, W was exceptionally efficient in pointing them out. What I am struggling with is how to fix them if they centered around her and we are now living apart.

For example, she has said:

1. "You nit-pick me from the time you come home to the time you go to bed"

2. "There is no love in this house"

3. "Living with you is like having a boss"

4 ."We want different things out of life"

5. "You treat life like it's a dress rehearsal"

I have had plenty of time to reflect on these, and though I do not agree with all of them (any of them, really) I can see how she arrived at some of these conclusions. How do I 180 these if they are so very much centered around her perception of me?

Here are the things I could have done better relating to the list above:

1.) I could have learned to live with imperfections a little better. Though I don't think it nit-picked, she felt I did - so I could have held my tongue on matters that didn't really weigh much. She would say I was nit-picking her if I picked up the baby's toys when I came home, or if I asked her if she fed the dog when I got home from work. I don't THINK that's nit-picking, but if I work off of her perceptions then I could have just accepted that she had everything under control and not ask anything potentially "judging" when I got home. I will admit that I am a bit of an OCD neat freak. 180 = relax and accept the imperfections in life as evidence that someone that loves you is there.

2.) That one I just don't get. Every night I fell asleep with my arms around her and woke up the same way. I would kiss her and our son good-bye in the morning and rush home at the end of the day to be with them. I spoiled her when I could and tried to tend to all of her needs. Maybe I just missed the mark on what she interpreted as "love". What I could have done differently is tell her that I love her every day, show more affection, hold her hand more in puplic (never really did that much), bring flowers every now and then, rub her back whenever she asked, and so on. The 180 here would be all of those things above, but she isn't around anymore. Even before she moved out she wasn't interested in it. This is one that centers 100% around her that I can't 180. The best I can do is try to show as much love to our son as I can, and that is easy to do.

3.) This one is very related to #1. I think she believed that everything had to be in state of perfection for me to be happy and if it wasn't, I would blame her and be angry. This just wasn't true in my eyes, but I see her perception and need to deal with it. The 180 here would be to relax and learn to live with things that are not perfect. To know that the counters won't always be clean and the cabinets might just always be a mess - and just let it go. How do I 180 this in her eyes being in her own condo now?

4.) This one is matter of perception as well. We spent three years focusing on the one things that we both wanted - a child. We went through a brutal infertility process that had 4 failed procedures and one successful one (thank God). That process was so intense and emotion-packed we had little time to focus on anything else we wanted in life. Then when the baby came, we were so wrapped up in being new parents that we didn't talk about what else we wanted in life (travel, retirement, style of life, etc.). She had only expressed that she wanted another baby and I did not immediately agree (though I did not disagree, either). In an argument before she moved out I asked her what she wanted out of life and she just snapped "thanks for asking after 8 years" - and left the house. The 180 here could be (or could have been) sitting down when "the iron is cold" and asking her excatly what it was she wanted out of life and try to map a plan to get there together. Sad thing is, I would like another child too - and we seems miles away from there.

5.) I think this was her way of saying that "you think you have all the time in the world to live" - I.E. - let's hurry up and have another baby. I will admit that it is hard for me to make big life decisions without having a full plan in front of me. It is nearly impossible to create an 18 year plan for a child before it is even born. So I always wondered "how will we pay fo college", "will we have enough money", "will I be a good dad" - and so on. This wasn't just with the baby, but I was cautious and conservative with a lot of my judgements and that might have driven her nuts. The 180 here would have been just to simply accept living without all the answers and having faith that things would work out in the end. I should have put myself farther out on the branch than I did, but I was terrfied of failure as husband and father.

So even in her absence I am trying to work on those 180s, but without her around it is difficult. Not just because she is not there to witness, but because so many of them are directly related to her. Right now communication is highly limited so I am at a loss for exactly how to handle things right now.

I will focus on myself, but I would be a liar if part of me didn't want her to see changes. I want her to believe that coming home will be better than living alone....I want her to believe that it will be better than what she left, but I just don't know how to get that across to her. Right now, I feel like she hates me and the lack of communication and contact only pulls her farther and farther away from me - not towards me like I would have hoped. Maybe it will in time. I am hopeful.

Crimson

Forgot to mention - W also said that I was too disconnected from the family. She said that I was on my iPad, BlackBerry, Mac too much. Granted, she did the exact same things more or less - but again, I can see her perspective.

There was a debate earlier this year in which she asked me to stop bringing my iPad/BlackBerry to bed. For several weeks I stopped. Then I would come upstairs to go to bed and she would be typing away on her BlackBerry. To me that said "this isn't a problem anymore" - so I brought mine back to bed. Never should have done that, because she was angry about it and let me know during the D-bomb drop in September.

She said I never sat at the dinner table with her and our son. Further supporting her claim that I was disconnected. I can see how she would see it that way - but whenever there were actual "dinners" where we cooked I was always at the table. If I walked through the door at 5:45 and she was feeding herself with one hand and feeding the baby with the other and there was really nothing made for dinner - sure, I would grab a sandwich and sit on the couch and watch the news. I retrospect, I could have done that differently if I new that it was that upsetting to her. Notwithstanding, any time she asked me to come to the table I always did.

I never FELT disconnected from them - I loved being around them, they were the center of my world. However, I can see how she could see it that way. My 180 now is to spend as much time engaged to my son as I can when he is with me. Hence the hikes, trips to the zoo, etc. - I make it about him as much as I can. Again, the down side is that even though it is a good change that I am making for myself, she will never have a chance to see it - unless I just go and trumpet it in her face, which I will not do.

In unrelated news, not communicating with her is so freakin' hard. I want to text and say hello or ask how she is doing - but I know that is not what is right at the moment. I question if it would even be welcomed at this point. I haven't so much as typed a word to her since Friday - and that was during an uncomfortable exchange regarding who had our son and when. That is probably the longest I have gone without communicating with her since I met her. I am proud of my resolve, but again fearful that lack of contact will result in her growing even more distant. I hope that going dim/LRT is the right thing to do.

Crimson

Hi Crimson,
Just wanted to say I'm following your thread and I SO know what you're going through.

I'm relatively new to this too, so I don't have much in the way of advice - I have practically the same questions/fears as you.

It has helped me to think that my H is actually unable to control how he is feeling. I believe it's something to do with a mood disorder condition similar to bipolar depression.

I may be wrong, but it certainly helps me to interpret his behaviour from this perspective. I have to think that he doesn't really want to hurt me and our kids like this, it's just that he can't help it at the moment.

But every day I have to fight the screaming thought that this is not actually happening to me. The only thing that gets me through is the belief that he is actually suffering from something that's like a physical sickness.

Thanks NLW.

My W's sister is bipolar, my W suffers from depression and MIL dances on the fringes of bipolar (my assessment, not a doctor's). Part of me has tried to view it from the standpoint that maybe she is sick and in the fog right now. But if she is, she is certainly maintaining enough mental clarity to hire a lawyer and move out. I have always held that some of this is biological - but if she refuses to see it that way there is nothing that I can do until she does.

It's sort of a double whammy - being unhappy with things in a marriage can make you feel hopeless. Depression can do the same. Layer the two things on each other and it is enough to put up a pretty high and thick wall. I am still trying to get through it.

Crimson