Well, I'm back. When I last wrote I had a huge amount I wanted to write about what was really a very small experience I had recently. To be honest, I am having trouble mustering the enthusiasm to type about it, but I think that I need to bring it out.
About a week ago (actually 2 weeks) I went to a rehearsal for a small community play that 2 of my children are in. Actually, I was only there to drop them off, but one of the performers was unable to be at that rehearsal, and they asked me to read for his part. Well, acting used to be my old love; long before W and I met I used to perform in community theater. I used to live for it! It never felt like work to do that. I was just doing what I did. And some people said some very nice things about my acting. By this time, of course, it had been more than 20 years since I had gone on a stage.
Well, I read for that part, and people loved it. More importantly, I loved it. I felt the old energy, the old me, back again. I was going into it whole hog, and the other performers were in it with me.
It got me thinking. After we got married, it wasn't long before we were parents. As soon as that happened, the only thing that mattered about me was what I needed to become. I needed to become a provider, I needed to become a man with a career, I needed to become responsible, I needed to try, and try hard, do everything I could to become what I wasn't. What didn't matter anymore was who I was.
Not that it was wrong for me to be expected to step up to the plate when responsibilities arose. In many ways, I was pretty slow to assume those responsibilities, and should have gotten my act together much sooner. But I feel like in the process I lost myself.
What happened that night was the first time in years that I felt people valuing me for doing something that just came naturally. I didn't have to try hard. I just had to be myself. And I was valued for that. Just for being me.
Of course, there is not any obvious application for this newfound knowledge I have. I already spend enough evenings away from home as it is, and don't want my time with the children (not to mention, eventually as we grow closer, with W) to suffer.
I guess it was just important for me to get a snapshot of what it felt like to just be me, and to be appreciated for that. It matters that I have a picture of what has been missing for me - what I'm looking for.
In other news...
W last night just told me that she had noticed a change in my behavior - and not a good one. Apparently my appetite has become rather ravenous, and W mentioned to me that she has been horrified at the amounts I have been eating. There is undoubtedly substance to this, although I had never really noticed it. Apparently the children have, and have mentioned it to W as well.
W didn't go out of her way to be overly delicate when telling me this, but she wasn't trying to be offensive, either.
But what was important to me wasn't what she said (although it does clue me in on some things I should probably try to change), nor how she said it.
What really matters to me is the fact that, although I felt attacked by what she says (something that has often prevented us from communicating) and was tempted to become defensive, I held back and listened. It was perhaps my first successful attempt at changing the way I perceive her talking to me. I was able to listen to her, assuming that she was trying to convey information I needed to know in order to address problems, rather than assuming that she was angry and yelling at me. I guess that seems elementary for some people, but for me it is a huge leap forward.
Well, I'm all typed out. Will try to maintain a fairly regular presence here, so that I can keep current.
Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
As someone who is new to learning the same communication skills, I am really impressed. You listened to evaluate the truth of what she was saying without getting wrapped up in her skillfulness at saying it. You didn't react defensively as you would have. You accepted that those closest to you have insights about you that bear listening to. This is really good, really important. Good job!
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Mr. Bond, W is a New Yorker. Believe me, her whole family is very brash in the way they speak, and I have come to learn it is a cultural thing. Where they come from (their particular NY subculture, I suppose), you speak what is on your mind, and framing things delicately is taken as a lack of honesty. I knew, to some extent, what I was getting into when we married, and I have to learn to deal with the way she communicates - just as she has to adapt to some of my copious "quirks." Although I don't have her style of communication down just yet, I do know enough to understand that what W was expressing was her concern for my health.
Adinva - thank you for your comments, and for your praise. It is important to hear some positive feedback when you are looking to change. W has said frequently that she sees no difference in me (a couple of times I have let slip during an argument and asked), and that can be discouraging.
On the other hand, not time to celebrate yet. Last night W and I got into another argument. It was largely because, when she got annoyed with me, I started pursuing (didn't even realize it until late this morning, as I obsessively played the conversations in my head over and over), obsessing over ironing out this little bump she and I were running over. Then I got upset when she didn't understand my point of view, and got hung up on the verbage she used...it was a mess.
So, I guess it is back to lesson one with me. Have to go home tonight, give W space, live my own life, and be available to listen if she wants to talk.
Thanks for talking (typing) to me. It makes it much easier to keep up my presence on this board, which really helps me to process what is going on in the rest of my life.
Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
Adinva - you described yourself as "new to learning the same communication skills." Do you have topics to which you regularly post? I think I will have to find out more about you, as I might be able to learn from you.
Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
I reread what you said and taken at face value I don't see it as over the top rude, just unskillful communication. If you're really eating enough more than usual that your kids noticed and said something to your W, and she mentioned it to you, and you acknowledged it was true, then the rudeness of it is secondary to the truth of it. You could be damaging your health. Those of us trying to lose weight can tell you how destructive to your self esteem some extra weight can be, and how hard it is to lose. At this time more than ever you should be taking very good care of yourself.
My T and I have discussed ways of dealing with when your loved one is rude/sarcastic/hurtful. It can be a way of passive-aggressively expressing resentment about something completely unrelated. It can be a bad habit. Or it can be a way of shutting down a conversation or derailing it into a fight. If you can learn not to react to the word choice that's good. And if you can learn to express how the word choice affects you that's even better, like: "I felt disrespected by the way you said you were horrified by my eating. I appreciate that you brought it to my attention but I will ask you to use more courtesy when you talk to me." For me the issue was a sarcastic demeaning tone that could melt me into tears and completely shut down what I was trying to say. We decided mutually with a therapist that the tone was unfair tactics and if it occurred we agreed that I could end the conversation and pick it up again later when we could both be more calm. T called it negotiating boundaries and rules of fair fighting. It's a mutual understanding, so you both have agreement that it's not ok and what will happen if it occurs.
I do think if she's regularly insulting and demeaning that, just like it's ok for her to tell you you're overeating, it's ok for you to point out that her words might convey unintended messages to the kids. This is tricky. As my H became more depressed and miserable pre-bomb, he was really getting mean with the kids. When he called S11 a "jerk" I took him aside and told him I felt that he was using insults that could permanently affect the relationship he has with S, that I preferred if he could be more specific about the behavior he didn't like and not paint S with a label that was hurtful. It's hard when your relationship is bad. This worked better post-bomb when we got into counseling and could discuss situations like this with the T. Then she could make sure I understood I wasn't always right and H wasn't always wrong - she was good about praising what H did right, and she had experience with many clients to be able to tell H with authority that what he was doing could result in oppositional behavior during the teens.
In the course of my situation I've had my eyes opened in a lot of areas that I thought I had pretty well in hand already. First was that I'm not always right or there can me more than just my way of looking at things. Second is that I don't have to react emotionally or immediately to things said to me. I can evaluate them first and choose my response - I don't have to be reactive. If H is mad I don't have to be upset, I can allow that he's mad but still be calm and OK on my side. Third is that your loved ones are in a position to give you important feedback on how you come across - if you don't get defensive and write it all off as criticism you have an opportunity to improve yourself, and vice versa. I learned a lot more about marital communication in the book Family Communication by Sven Wahlroos that offers good examples of the seemingly small ways you can drive your loved ones crazy without even knowing it.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I don't think we overlapped here much in the but I can identify with your situation in many, many ways. I think the stress is causing your W to respond in one way, and you in another. The 2x4s I got were when others here pointed out how weak and needy I sounded. I didn't MEAN to be that way, but the stress and chaos in my life sent me down that path. You could say my W is sort of brash also, and takes the lead when she can. I also put to much stock in ML, seeing it as the best way to really connect with my W (read reassurance) and she started seeing it as an obligation. Don't know if any of that hits home. I had to lessen the stress quite a bit to rediscover the old me. And even them it took time and, honestly, some help. You need to figure out some really creative ways to lessen teh stress on the two of you. Sometimes that just means paying a sitter, for no reason other than to do normal shopping or just sit in a shop, drinking coffee, surfing the web, and NOT talking at all. Just being together. I read alot also.....you mention being a nice guy. Well from one to another...I think in times like these our Ws need quiet strength most of all.
It is amazing how much easier it is to GAL once you realize that your own life is the only one you really have.
I told you recently about a big knock down drag out that W and I had recently. Well, I actually hadn't really thought of it as a knock-down drag-out, but W got very upset about it. The most I remember having done was slamming a couple of doors, because I was frustrated, as I felt I was not being listened to. W will often tell me her perception of an action, her interpretation of what my motives must have been ("it looks to me like"), and then when I tell her what my actual intent was, she responds with "I don't care."
Of course, that is just written out of my hurt feelings, and I am sure she has her own perspective on this whole matter. Please don't take my own rantings as what actually happened, just what it looks like from my angle.
Later that night, W wrote me a note, telling her side of the story and what had made her so angry.
And, the following day, I wrote an e-mail apologizing. I told her that I appreciated her note, and explained that I had "fallen off the wagon" with regards to giving her space when there was conflict. That I had obsessed on having her understand my point of view, rather than accepting what she said for what I could take from it and letting her anger roll off me.
She responded last night. She gave me a two page review of the last 15 years, and all the ways that I have not valued our relationship, all the ways I have ignored her advice and her requests. And she told me that, after all that time, I still yell at her, am abusive, and that she is physically afraid of me.
I take all these things very seriously. I don't want to be an abusive husband, and the last thing I have ever wanted was for anyone to be afraid of me. But more than that, I remember only twice the other night slamming doors, (one right after the other, as I went outside to take a walk and cool down), and don't recall yelling at all! I had thought the whole thing had remained a lot calmer than I had thought it might have done.
But was I abusive? Is my temper so terrible that I have given her reason to be afraid of me? And without my even realizing it?
We have gone through this before, and specified exact behaviors that W found intimidating. And I didn't think I engaged in those behaviors this time (except for the door slamming).
I am terrified - and horrified - to think that I may be the abusive, uncaring, unlistening person she says I am. My IC says I have changed greatly at this point. W says not at all. I don't want to be mean, or controlling, or intimidating. The kids aren't afraid of me - but then I never, even in the past, got into the kind of arguments with them that W and I got into. I've never struck her...EVER! But of course, that's not the only kind of abuse there is.
W shouldn't have to live in fear, and if I can do that to her when I am trying to control myself, and not even realize I've done it, then do I really have ANY control over how I treat her? Would she be better off if I just left? Supported her financially but allowed her to live separately from me, so she could feel safe and secure?
Am I some sort of monster, without whom she would be far better off?
She concluded her note by giving me a deadline, saying that if I do not seek anger management classes before then she will ask me to leave the house.
So, now my view of my future has been changed - somewhat by force. It used to be that I always visualized my future with the assumption that she would be a central part of it. Now, I am visualizing a future in which I had better be able to get by on my own. Where I have to have my own life, with her or without her.
In short, desirable or undesirable, my life is mine. I have a life of my own.
I just wrote all this stream of consciousness. I am so upset and in shock that I couldn't think clearly enough to organize this post. I hope it makes sense to someone.
Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
By the way, I have already done the obvious - I have contacted my IC about getting into an anger management course.
I am afraid, though. Am I having a lot of times when I am losing my temper that I don't realize or don't remember, and not bringing them into therapy? Is that why W hasn't seen any change? And if that is the case, how will anger management help? Won't it just be another place where I fail to bring in problems that happen at home, because I don't recognize the problems?
Is there any hope at all?
Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
