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Thanks for responding adinva. I've been thinking about the whole emotional needs portion of our relationship, but I still don't have any concrete answers. He had a really rough childhood that he rarely talks about, but I know its at least part of the reason that he's a lot more needy than he appears.

Whenever I give him compliments and tell him that I appreciate what he does for our family (which I've been doing A LOT more of lately) he just gets silent. And I thought I had trouble taking compliments.

I'm pretty sure that he started off by getting the attention and admiration that he wasn't receiving from me. The first ow was so far away from us that it was literally impossible for him to see her for months or even years at a time. He thrives off of the emotional connection that he gets. From the looks of it, its usually a lot of small talk - sometimes he talks about his career and other accomplishments, but I really think he likes to know that these women were available to him at the drop of a hat. Its like he get some sort of satisfaction out of knowing that he has that power.

Apparently, he got mad when ow#1 made herself unavailable to him for the first time. She wrote to him that she was too busy being around people that really cared about her. I.E., he only contacts her when things are going south at home and he wants some attention.

When I look at the dynamic that he has with just about every person in his life I can see that he really has to be viewed as the one who will always save the day. He makes ridiculous concessions in order to appease his family and friends, even if it is a huge inconvenience on us all. We have had endless fights and arguments about this because I think its just common sense not to put yourself at a disadvantage to help someone that is taking you for granted.

He's popular and seen as a good guy, but he doesn't see when he's being taken advantage of. And I do. When he would offer to take me shopping, I'd tell him no because I didn't think we could afford it. I'm sure the ows openly accepted anything he offered.

He's always been a hard worker, so I tried my best not to burden him. He may have interpreted that as me saying that I didn't want or need him. I'm not a terribly affectionate person, and I've said some things that weren't too nice. One time, when he asked me if I missed him when he was gone for a week I either didn't respond or said not really. I was terribly angry and I just had my defenses up. Now I know that this was terribly hurtful to him.

Sorry for the long winded response, I'm just trying to get my thoughts out.

Yeah, well that's why I think we're at a stalemate. Because I did not give him 'permission' to have a friendship with her, I know that it may very well go undercover. Actually, I'm sure that it will. But, the ow's response is going to be very telling. So far, he's jumped every time she's said how high, and he ended up canceling something at the last minute that was important to her. I try not to think about her or her intentions because the real problem is with him. All I know is that she is clearly using him to do her grunt work, and I am clearly an obstacle. Hoping that she will just find a more willing victim, but that's not likely.

From what I understand, he missed a call from her yesterday and went to the store around the corner so that he could call her back. She told him that she wanted him to do this favor, then he told her that he just wanted to be her friend. When he came home, he told me all this, stating that he didn't like making up excuses and lies. He said a lot of things yesterday that sounded genuine, but I'm pretty detached at this point.

Really, its too early to tell what he's going to do. He is definitely thinking because my responses have been completely out of the norm. All I know is that we need counseling, stat. He has his head on so much more straight when he talks to someone that has professional experience and has no incentive to tell him to take the easy way out.

As for our family, well, yeah. Its very difficult at times, and it has made me very resentful towards my mother. Her life wasn't exactly a bed of roses and after divorcing my father, he latest relationship makes mine look like the Brady Bunch.

The layoff will last at least 2 or 3 months. That's why I'm glad that I have been applying to jobs like crazy for the past few weeks and picking up extra work here and there. I know H is a good provider, so its going to be hard but not impossible. I'm hoping that I can pick up some of the extra slack as well.

Hope you enjoy dinner! Might ask for the chocolate cake recipe near Christmas.

I guess this is going to be a recap journal post. So many things have happened, some mundane, some a little more eye opening.

I'm not sure if this is going to be another calm before the storm, but I am enjoying the peace for now. H has still not given up his passwords so I am going to stop asking. I mentioned it the first time a little over a week ago, then a day or two after the self imposed 1 week deadline. Kind of mentioned it in a joking way, but still no cigars. Maybe I should have had a pad and pen waiting.

Earlier in the week when he said that he was going to speak to the ow he almost pulled his famous flip flopping stunt. After I insisted that friends don't sleep together, he said that he was really trying but he was always going to be her friend. That's when he mentioned that they practically grew up together and all that other bull. I told him that she had only been back in his life for a couple of months and that they seemed to do fine without each other all this time.

I also said that he shouldn't be forced to choose, but that it wasn't okay with me. His response - 'maybe I don't want to be in a relationship anymore.' I asked him if he was thinking out loud, or if this was something that he wanted a response to. After much silence he apologized. He's got this pressure thing. I push, he pulls, then vice versa. I've been very, very steady lately. I might teeter a little, but I refuse to fall over.

My main focus is going to be to get back into counseling. No, its not going to solve everything, but his attitude and actions took such a major shift that its startling. I think the reality of splitting up our family as well as me being very nonchalant about the breakup really impacted him. He's repeating some similar things that he's said in the past, but the way he says it is different. We've gone to the gym together a few times, done some outdoor activities with the kids and spent lots of movie nights together.

H has been much more affectionate and appreciative. Told me that I did a good job with dinner on Thanksgiving, said that he was happy with the way that the house was being maintained, given me compliments and hasn't been in a bad mood or a funk lately at all. Even after telling him I am not supporting his 'friendship' with ow, he was affectionate and focused on me. In the past, he would have withdrawn completely. Its almost like he's making too much progress too fast. I am very proud of myself for remaining rock solid. I believe that I am fully conveying the attitude that I will make it, with or without him.

At some point in the past few days he mentioned that he was happy about us talking like we used to. I still know that ow is there in the background. Over the course of all of our long talks, he told me a lot more than I wanted to hear. I think he's feeling more and more guilty about his behavior since he no longer has any valid excuses. He gets to come home to a clean home, happy kids, hot meals, no arguments and a partner that doesn't look like something the cat dragged in.

When he talked about maintaining a friendship with the ow, I was surprised at how thoroughly detailed his plan was. He was going to tell me when he was going over her house beforehand (yeah, right) and would only go as a group with mutual friends. I mean, who needs a chaperon to visit a platonic friend? So, he's still touched in the head, but maybe he's slowly coming back to reality.

H also told me that he noticed men 'checking me out' at the gym. I didn't notice, but the fact that he did must mean something. I still need to lose a lot more weight, but H likes 'meaty' women. I used to be a stick and he has never complained about the weight gain. If anything, I think he likes this look better.

There's really so many good signs and a few not so good signs that I'm taking it all in. Most of my days are filled with focusing on what I need to do rather than worrying about what he's thinking or feeling. Its like leaving the circus for the first time in your life.

Ha ha! These words will be in my head each time I feel like hanging around in sloppy clothes! Never thought about my "comfy" being his "something the cat dragged in"!

Aww, well I'm glad that gave you a chuckle. I don't equate comfortable clothes as being particularly unattractive, as long as they are in a state of good repair. That and being well groomed.

I pretty much stay in sweats and jeans all day, but I look more put together. Up until a few months ago, I was still wearing a lot of maternity clothing. I wasn't that big anymore, but I didn't want to spend any money on clothing. I completely redid my wardrobe on a budget and I feel amazing.

For the record, I still wear my favorite pair of black velor sweatpants with bleach stains on the rear cuff and a hole on the top of the left pant leg every so often. On those days I'm either doing deep cleaning or painting with oils, but I digress.

Thanks a lot for that "something the cat dragged in" picture in my mind. I had on track pants and a local tv channel t-shirt when H came home this evening. But, I did put on lipstick!!

It does sound like your H is coming back to reality a bit, compared to before. So, he thought it all out as to how a friendship with ow would go? You mean you didn't find it all perfectly logical? It's going to be back and forth between sanity and not. You know when my H saw other guys looking at me he was taken aback, too. He was with me one time when a guy my sister dated back when we were teenagers asked me where I was back then.

vc

Had another pleasant and productive day with some strange developments. My workday was done by 10AM so I colored with the kids until it was time for their nap. Ran a few errands in the afternoon and my mom came over for a brief visit in the evening.

H made dinner for the first time in weeks. Left the kitchen a mess, but I'm still happy with the effort. I couldn't help myself, so I asked him what ow said when he told her he wouldn't be able to help her with the house. He said that he didn't say anything - that he doesn't didn't show up. I'm not sure if I believe his answer, but he did seem somewhat sad and down at times today. He barely touched his cell phone, and he's usually glued to the thing.

Could care less how ow felt, but I couldn't help to feel like she was thrown off by him not showing up. And if he's telling her the truth about giving her no advance notice, I think she might have to reevaluate her relationship with her old flame/whipping boy.

He called me when he got to work and we talked for about 10 minutes. Late last night we texted back and forth for about a 1/2 hour. I am not a big phone person but he is. I also realized just how he is affected the level of interest that I show in him.

When H got home this morning he wanted to chat and recount his day but the kids were stirring. He sat and watched me while I washed the dishes, then eventually retreated to the bedroom. It was too loud to carry on a conversation and I had fully intended on speaking to him as soon as I was done, but I could tell he was somewhat disappointed.

H came out and tried to cop a feel when I was washing dishes. Then he said that he remembered when I would swat him away and tell him to stop. This is all giving me something to think about.

Sweats do not equal something that the cat dragged in, lol! I'm talking about ill fitting maternity wear with deep set spaghetti sauce stained, run down sneakers and general laziness. I just did not care how I looked to the point that I sometimes startled myself when I looked in the mirror. I lost myself completely after the kids came.

Well, all I can say is that he would have never told me of his plans before and he definitely would not have respected my wishes. On one hand, everything looks good, but he might be welling up resentment. I have no way of knowing what he is telling her, if he is avoiding contact with her altogether or if he is truly trying to quit cold turkey.

In his mind, being honest about everything should have been enough. I think he probably feels that he is being improperly punished for his honesty. He even said that he could have made something up and that I'd be none the wiser, but that he wanted to be honest. However, he knows that I can sniff out his lies better than ever. Being more in tune to his emotions and needs has been a double edged sword for him.

Again, time will if the pressure eventually makes him crack or if it is the motivation he needs to get his butt into gear.

Coincidentally, this is not the first time a man paid attention to me blatantly in front of him. Maybe six weeks ago, we went out to a social event at a location I wouldn't get caught dead at. But, it was his idea and the event was in honor of one of his close friends. H had his arm around me, and the bouncer asked me who that guy was all over me. Thankfully, we were ushered in about five seconds later.

I'm sure you H had a similar reaction when your sister's ex made that comment. Men are always competing, even when they know that they're already won.

Okay, you definitely win in the WTCDI category!!

My H and your sound similar in what they like as far as having your attention goes. My H comes in the kitchen and does the same thing, and I used to swat him away. He also wants my undivided attention when he wants to tell me something; no going around the corner into the kitchen to check if dinner is burning. He had a period of "withdrawal" from ow. Walking around all sad sack and stuff. For awhile the ow contact continued, lots of cell phone calls. One day, I got his phone and saw another call, and told him no contact MEANS no contact!
It dwindled down after that, until it quit, unless of course he got another "secret" cell phone. Although he stopped paying on the old "secret" cell phone, and it has gone to collections, and I got the bill months ago. I don't know why I haven't just paid it. I guess I will, since we are trying to get all our debt cleared up.

And like your H, thinking you would have been none the wiser if he had made up something, but like you, I can sniff out lies way better than he knows, and I am a great detective. And HE'S the cop!!haha.

It's so true about men competing, and having pi$$ing contests. It's like they are big kids sometimes, seeing who can impress the girls by doing the stupidest thing.
vc

Oh, and speaking of not caring one whit about ow's feelings, same here. but, one thing i did, which turned out to be kind of fortunate for me, I guess, was I got myself a disposable "secret" cell phone of my own,and called my H's phone and kept trying to hack into his voice mail. I tried every password idea I could think of, then remembered the date on the bottom of the ugly stinky wooden box ow made for him(the one that S chopped up with an ax, and we burned in the woods). That was the password, and I was able to go in and use my little recorder and record all ow's messages to my H. I put them in my new safety deposit box along with other "evidence". They were sickening. But, I had just gotten a set of tapes called "Light His Fire", and some of what I heard on the messages, sounded like ow was wooing him with the same sort of thing. Thanking MY H for how hard he worked!! Crap like that. Like, not one single penny of his salary was going to that skank. I knew that for a fact. ow would call him and giggle like an idiot, which sounded deranged to me.

Oh well, just another story of vc's lovely life.