I feel like the self-soothing thing would have been easier in a crib. Argh. She gets up out of bed and I'm not so comfortable with her doing that. She cries at the door for ever - till she vomits.
Not to belabor the point on voice messages but you kind of lost me. What I am saying is that for ME, listening to voice messages is the last thing I do b/c I have to wade through the saved messages first, to GET to the voice message
and I would not know who left it until I get to it unless I do some end run around around my cell phone's menu, but if I'm driving or busy or in a meeting, no way.
So I don't know what you mean if he said he had not listened "yet," or if you're upset that he DID listen to it, but did not answer... is that it?
If so, if he was reachable buy SOMEONE, then would you agree that's all that matters? Or no?
Originally Posted By: LilaGirl
As far as believing what he says and not attributing negative stuff I get stuck a little it's important to stay focussed on actions and try Not to paint or label them into being monsters (we rarely come up with positive labels) or do our pseudo-analysis so that we feel we have figured it all out. We tell ourselves it HELPS "just to understand", but I think that's a lie. It's part of a negative cycle we participate in.
For one thing, It does NOT help the relationship to label them or pretend we understand them, OR even to actually somehow truly understand them, if WE DO nothing differently.
Seriously. The "analysis" we do in their absence is nearly always inaccurate b/c we don't know their inner monologue, or the background context of their emotions then,
or what happened to THEM that day/ OR how they feel physically, OR what "x" event symbolizes to THEM, not us, etc...
Second, I think it cements negativity in our feelings about them, the more we label it. And THAT labelling in the name of understanding, negatively affects how WE interact in the R. After all, we just diagnosed them as jerks, narcissists, control freaks, paranoid, jealous, slobs, etc. Harder to be loving to people like that.
Finally, to them/him, that behavior of ours towards them in the interactions (Based on our labels of them) is "unfairly negative", so
then HE thinks you mistreat him b/c of some character flaw in YOU..."and the wheels of the bus go round n round".... see how circular this gets?
And it's NOT Helping you move forward in the R, OR helping smooth the interactions. So yeah, I say Just stick to the facts.
Like I'm in IC and IC is helping me see that I often get myself into Rs where I don't get my needs met - now I realize that if I had done better and been healthier around that, I may not have chosen exBF in the first place.
Understood. I get it. I'm not saying there's no place for this type of analysis. Not at all. It's very important to know this before you engage in another R. to own it and to change the way you pick them...clearly b/c you said you've never had a long term R, right? Okay so there's work to do there, later on...
I am saying this isn't the focus here, b/c DBing is about improving the present R, in the present...and going forward.
As harsh or odd as it may sound, a lot of the "why" you chose him, and patterns you create, or what else "then happened" to you, is your own personal work to do - absolutely - BUT it is perhaps ALSO
irrelevant to fixing this r at this time...AND
It can actually make things worse.
A therapist I know recently said, "Sometimes talking things out, is NOT the healthy thing, b/c it only serves to relive the trauma, and keeps them mired in it"...
I wonder if the "need to understand" the past CAN also do that.
It's a blurry thing, this "past", and no two people see it the same...
and it's also a way to avoid working on the NOW...
The DB concept is radically different in this respect, [b]it's short term solution based therapy about What to do NOW, from now on...that improves things...period.
BTW the short term solution based T will tell you up front, if they cannot help you in a few to a half a dozen appointments, you should move on. That's radically different than most.
But sometimes we talk about him to show how I didn't get my needs met and he couldn't give me what I needed. So I don't mean it to be negative, but it feels inherent in this kind of discussion.
Yes - It IS inherent in these types of discussions. By their very nature, we "get negative" (b/c we're usually not seeing a T or C for reasons having to do with how great we think they are. )
I totally get that. OTOH, you have had a lot of these discussions w/a lot of different c's and t's, and not a lot has changed, except he's left now.
So the discussions changed nothing. The "identifying" the patterns, recognizing the "underlying issues", and focussing on him and his behaviors (via the route of "trying to understand" him) has not changed enough of the actual behaviors, to alter the outcome. [u] FOR ME, that's not much of a payoff. Life is short. [/u]
I'd want to do or focus on something vastly different b/c that's too long a time to be in essentially the same position, practically speaking, as I was in - 6 months earlier.
Also, my old IC and this new one have both said - believe what they do not what they say, and I don't know where to fall on that. "I'm not abandoning my family" as he drives off without telling anyone and doesn't answer his phone for three days ... I wrote and said "I didn't say you did, but what should I think when you do that, you tell me" kind of thing (trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I don't know what that is - certainly not the normal behavior of functioning beings)
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Also, my old IC and this new one have both said - believe what they do not what they say, and I don't know where to fall on that. Focus on his actions. There's a reason we and the c's and t's and MWD say to ignore the words of someone behaving inconsistently with them or confusingly. The comment about not abandoning--those words were totally meaningless. No need to label. All that mattered was that he didn't answer his phone for 3 days
"I'm not abandoning my family" as he drives off without telling anyone and doesn't answer his phone for three days ... I wrote and said "I didn't say you did, but what should I think when you do that, you tell me" kind of thing (trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I don't know what that is - certainly not the normal behavior of functioning beings)
this ^^ is more of the argument/cycling behavior that gets repeated. It isn't the helpful type. Asking him what he thinks you should think is also a lose lose question. No right answer. Seriously, ask yourself what he could possibly say to that question, without feeling like crap about himself?
Remember when you got upset about how he said the break up was mutual and you two are going to be friends? If you realistically thought of his options, you'd see he picked the most respectful one he could, for your sake.
Think about it. He COULD have said "Oh we broke up! Boy did she take it hard b/c she'll never do better than me, but hey, she's a beyotch and I deserve better."
OR he could have said, "I had to get away. Yes She's falling apart, begged me to stay, crawled clawed at my feet, but I'm outta there and I'm FREE!!!..."
While I do understand that you hate the idea of a "la la land" version of the break up, NO ONE thinks that exists. No one thinks you both calmly sat at the table and said "let's part ways...see ya!" And now all is well....no one believes that. They know there is pain.
But If you thought/Hoped he'd say "OH, I just want my freedom b/c I'm selfish, and I want her to do all the work and raise my kid, - unless I feel like getting a daddy fix & then I'm a hero"...was going to be his explanation, you're mistaken.
First, It's not true. Second, HE sure doesn't believe that it's true. Third, Deep down, you also know that's not the situation.
I dislike summarizing relationships b/c they're too complex for it but putting it in a tiny paragraph is what some people want you to do when they ask "what happened?"
You didn't know each other well, you may be ill suited for each other, you had a child, and while some guys would have simply written a monthly CS payment and bolted - b/c they didn't want to be "trapped" or married to someone they didn't know well enough,
and some women would have made different choices, i.e., to abort the child or give her up for adoption, you chose to have and keep her, b/c you wanted to have her in your life, love and do right by her, so you both tried to make some sort of r work, but it seems it didn't.
Yes he ended it, and that hurts, to be sure. But there are a lot of grays in here, not so many black & whites.
While it appears no m will take place between you two, there will still be some contact and there has been for 3 years now, including the pregnancy.
So, something in between a "monthly check only" r - but less than a beautiful committed m will exist. Most r's after children are born out of wedlock, are in between the two extremes...
So, given all that, I hope you realize that the "amicable break up" story is a common lie friends/family are told, but it's often kind of a necessary one.
Who really wants others to know that they collapsed & begged and sobbed at their h's feet (as my bff from high school did, when her h dropped the bomb after 18 years)? She's still mortified.
Who really wants others to know that they screamed, carped and nagged and slammed doors and hit walls-all while trying to convince someone to stay?--only to convince the WAS to run faster and farther...w/their choice to leave being validated by the minute.
I was out of town earlier & couldn't post but I recall you being upset that his family didn't get the real picture. But they know more than you realize, and I'm positive they've expressed at the very least, concern for their grandchild.
Does this make more sense to you now? Do you see how He was not trying to hurt you more?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
If you are at all budgeting for him contributing more than he's ordered to pay, don't....he may have trouble making those payments (and anger about that is not going to help either). Act now to protect yourself. Still not sure why you don't move to a cheaper place and simply accept that this is the obvious trade off.
I don't see an alternative and haven't for awhile. In any event,
Good luck on the sleeping thing. **Know that it won't be easy at first, but that doesn't mean it's the wrong approach, whichever one you choose. It WILL be hard. If it weren't hard, we wouldn't be talking about it.
You'll be glad you did it though. Very.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Help? Potential responses? He first wrote to say he is going away November 14-17, and wrote again to say Nov 13 - 21 (basically extending a work trip for vacation).
No, 25, he's not losing his job. He's master at doing the minimum and getting paid 150K for it. (Sorry - but it's what I observe) and now he's going out there to see his boss, so I'm sure they'll get nice and bonded so he can come back and do a whole lot more of nothing. Or getting mad at people when they actually expect anything for him.
So, maybe I should say, "Sounds like a good time to hire a night nurse!" He can pay for it, and I can sleep train that week.
Idiot.
Sorry, yes, I'm pissed. No I don't want to resist. But I am having a reaction, esp. at the cusp of a lot of my own turmoil about not going on an important trip next week b/c I don't want to leave D right now and my L said not a good idea if I ever fought for custody (which I don't want to, but emotionally I am "not there" yet at this time to leave for three nights in the midst of all this).
(25 I'll respond to your posts after I can get through this.)
Well, it pushed me over the edge. I don't want a night nurse. I don't want him to pay for it. I don't want to try to make him be accounatable to us. I just need to get on my own two feet - without him - move on. I don't want to be contentious. I want to travel with my daughter one day and not have major legal restrictions on me b/c things came to that. I want us to be free people and free parents and parent how we want - he can see here when he wants. He knows he's open to whatever level of custody he wants. But sleeping away from home right now, given her state, isn't in her best interest, so I'll deal with that. He'll want her around when she's older and primed for that.
Anyway, I talked to my mom again and while it's not an ideal situation, I'm likely going to move in with her by December. She's helping me with rent from last month and this month, and then the money exBF gives me is going into my overdraft protection that went down to 7K over all this, and so I'm going to pay that back. Have a positive balance in my checking account by the end of the year, and start building back my business, working with my daughter on her sleeping (we have to move anyway, and getting her used to being here and then moving feels like it's a waste of time. I'll have less work pressure at my parents, and can do whatever sleep training is required there, where we'll likely be for a year. I'll put stuff in storage - there's enough room for a couch, TV, play area, and beds and no room for my office (basically a desk/chair/laptop) but I can work in my mom's closet or something (it's upstairs in that area, and maybe I can just freaking work there! Ugh!
My sitter already said she'd travel there. (It's 30 miles from here) and exBF can have his same schedule - although Monday nights might not make sense so I would have to rearrange some things but he can come down and take her out and bring her home - since we'll be about 90 mins away from him ...
Maybe this will be a wake up call for him. We're not going to sit around- he has a lot on offer here - unlimited time with D, us nearby, usually dinner is around when he wants. I pay all the bills now.
And 25 - I have four people looking for apartments for me and am SUPER diligent, and there is simply nothing I can afford now- which would be to the tune of $800 a month incl util (right now I pay $1500 and that does not incl util) the roommate stuff isn't happening either (I have like ten ads up and check every day for anything knew and wrote to half a dozen people) - I've been looking for two months, and I'll have a month more in november but ... I don't know what else to do. My mom's been looking too, and she agreed - I can't go from o to $60k overnight right now. And I have debt. This will get me out of debt, financially stable, a place to have a transition to decide where to go next and where to rebuild my life and the way my mom and I talked tonigth - while it was a little tense, we had a breakthrough where we are going to be open and honest about our feelngs (she admits she shuts down a lot to cope) ... and I think that's all a positive thing. Ideal? No. But not much is right now.
Focus on his actions. There's a reason we and the c's and t's and MWD say to ignore the words of someone behaving inconsistently with them or confusingly. The comment about not abandoning--those words were totally meaningless. No need to label. All that mattered was that he didn't answer his phone for 3 days[/color]
So, 25, let me know if I'm wrong here, I just want to be clear -
His words "I have no intentions on abandoning my family or my daughter" in an email means nothing. Correct? They are just words.
His behavior - leaving D in a room to scream. Then leaving the house without telling anyone. Texting me that he needs rest and cannot parent when she's out of control but then hearing nothing from him again until Wed night (the "i'm not abandoning email) even when I called and left a VM asking him what she ate for dinner that night b/c she vomited, and if we can discuss what happened. And then showing up late on the day he sees her is ...
Behavior.
And that's what I pay attention to.
But not judge, is what you're saying - not "make it into something" - but just watch and go "Okay, he's not here. He's not doing a, b, c."
Cause right now - that's what I'm responding to in my life. I can't COUNT on him anymore. He is unreliable in many ways. I need sleep and I need to take care of D and build my business. He hasn't even asked for her to go to his house anymore (or stay over -) (he probably will once I move - but he saw how distressed she ended up the two times he did it, even without me saying a word about it).
I'm responding to what I need to do - not the "blah blah blah - I'll call a child psychologist." "Oh, hey, I'm going away for a week."
Focus on his actions. There's a reason we and the c's and t's and MWD say to ignore the words of someone behaving inconsistently with them or confusingly. The comment about not abandoning--those words were totally meaningless. No need to label. All that mattered was that he didn't answer his phone for 3 days[/color]
So, 25, let me know if I'm wrong here, I just want to be clear -
His words "I have no intentions on abandoning my family or my daughter" in an email means nothing. Correct? They are just words. Correct...
His behavior - leaving D in a room to scream. Then leaving the house without telling anyone. Texting me that he needs rest and cannot parent when she's out of control but then hearing nothing from him again until Wed night (the "i'm not abandoning email) even when I called and left a VM asking him what she ate for dinner that night b/c she vomited, and if we can discuss what happened. And then showing up late on the day he sees her is ... Behavior.
And that's what I pay attention to. Yes...
But not judge, is what you're saying - not "make it into something" - but just watch and go "Okay, he's not here. He's not doing a, b, c."
Cause right now - that's what I'm responding to in my life. I can't COUNT on him anymore. correct...you cannot count on him for anything but what the court orders him to pay, and even then, only if he remains employed...
He is unreliable in many ways. I need sleep and I need to take care of D and build my business. He hasn't even asked for her to go to his house anymore (or stay over -) (he probably will once I move - but he saw how distressed she ended up the two times he did it, even without me saying a word about it).
I'm responding to what I need to do - not the "blah blah blah - I'll call a child psychologist." "Oh, hey, I'm going away for a week."
See, cause I believe the words. Duh!
don't bother labeling it b/c it won't help you...but yeah, you're on your own for now.
the anger won't help you either. Being independent WILL....Not needing him, WILL help.
Oh, LIla, don't spend energy resenting his vacation trip. It's like resenting him winning the lottery.
His happiness cannot be an index of yours.
If he gets sick, it can't make you happy and if he gets a bonus, you can't feel sad..
you need to spend your energy on making YOUR LIFE WONDERFUL....not even noticing his...
and being with your D, recalling her childhood moments and milestones...
and your ex bf? who knows?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I don't know, I still think I should write back - "Sounds good - and sounds like a good time to get a night nurse!"
The man is just never accountable. What does he care that his kid doesn't sleep? What does he care that he doesn't have to arrange for child care to spend a week away.
)