MZ, that's a long, boring read. Probably good if you have problems sleeping!
Dbing taught me a few things and left me with a few questions. This is one I think I really need to figure out.
HOW TO BE A CALM, CONFIDENT FAMILY LEADER?
Looking back this is what my W was needing - and more to the point it's what *I* need. I did a pretty good job early on, when the family situation is simple and stress levels were low. But when they got complicated my calm went out the window (hello anxiety) and the confidence eroded (weak and needy ain't attractive) and my W (who is ALL about leading and being in front) well, I think she really needed to know that I could absolutely be the leader if needed, but would choose to sit back until I was needed.
Much of my DBing was reading and learning about leadership - which I find fascinating. Read about business leadership, military leadership, family leadership (most of these book s are from a religous point of view, I found) Taoist principles resonated with me, and the philosphy of service leadership. But at my low point I wasn't in ANY condition to put this into practice.
Now I wonder - WHAT IS FAMILY LEADERSHIP, REALLY? AND HOW DOES IT WORK IN TODAY'S WORLD? Not that I want to lead all teh time, but I think it is important that my W knows I can when needed. Some days I think that while I do have some skills I just don't fit the typical "leader" model.
Well, I'm away with my H on a business trip. He's in conferences and I'm hanging out. That said, I did go back and read your sitch from beginning to about May and then skipped fwd.
I agree with both Sandi2 and Harrier in their feedback to you. I may have missed some key parts because your W seemed pretty invested in her EA w her boss and now is suggesting a job for you so you can be happy.
I have my own thoughts as a LBS and a woman. Before I speak I'd just like to find out more about where you are emotionally.
Affairs are not for sissies......THAT is for sure. DB is a grueling workout. You've done so well.
I have to meet H for lunch. I'll be back later hopefully.
M 55 H 58 M 24 T 29 S 22,21, 19 Bomb 4/10 It (A) really isn't about you 11/2013 We all have work to do
The truth will set you free, but it will almost kill you first.
I just wanted to share some thoughts because I interpret that you are taking too much of the blame at times. Feel like I could start a book, so basically I'll start with simple. Disclaimer- My intention here is to not give advice.
Your sitch has my attention. It's hitting a nerve for me. I've been thinking about it a lot. Your descriptions of your W remind me of myself in many ways. That whole go-getter, take charge, expect the most from others, caffeine, work...work...work...ACOA.
Since my H "left those voids" and I "had to" fill them, he looked weak, not man enough, not able to provide (in my opinion)....plus all the things you describe about yourself. I basically castrated my H. The power in our R was lopsided.
The difference in our sitches is that you weren't the one to have the A, she did. Given the right opportunity/sitch, it may very well have been you.
Something to think about here. Just give it some thought and if it applies, then it does, if not then OK......
In the movie, It's Complicated, Meryl Streep's character says to Alec Baldwin's character after sex (something along the lines), "I know it wasn't just you. You went out and had the A so I didn't have to."
Although you may need to/want to make changes in yourself because you see the things you want to change, be aware that you may be in a stage where you just want your W back and this is the one game in town that will settle things down. It does work. DB techniques do work. However, if they are not ultimately for you and who you really are (W benefits, yes), your old ways will creep in and it will feel more like duty/struggle.
Another movie example, Goundhog Day with Bill Murray and Andie McDowell. Bill's character desperately wants to wake up and find it different, but it can only be different when he has truly changed within himself and not just doing the motions. Watch it to know what I mean.
Enough for now. I'm interested in your response.
M 55 H 58 M 24 T 29 S 22,21, 19 Bomb 4/10 It (A) really isn't about you 11/2013 We all have work to do
The truth will set you free, but it will almost kill you first.
.....so my options are a Meryl Streep movies or Groundhog Day, eh?
MZ - I can't believe you actually found and read those threads. BTW - I'd say it was an EA, not a PA. Yes, Sandi2 and Harrier gave me some good advice (along with many others). And, yes, part of the problem was a power imbalance in our R. The stress of family and work made that worse. You got all that?????? wow.
Under different circumstances I don't have any trouble being strong and taking a leadership role - we just don't live in those circumstances. I'm a INFJ (have to take that test for work fairly often - too much about me.). And W is dynamite amist chaos - really amazing (sounds like you, I'd bet). I don't think my personality is likely to change much (too old). So I figure I need to learn as much as I can and/or change my situation - so I can be successful doing what I need to do. Time away to think and recharge. Remembering that things are probably only 50% as bad as they seem. Slowing down my thoughts. Being a little less willing to compromise and sacrifice. Sure, it's ironic that my W often does things that make this difficult (castrate, you said? funny, I've often thought that I could actually FELL the testosterone levels dropping). But somehow I think that's the point. We I don't have to worry about being affected by everything that happens with W - then I won't have to worry. The stronger I get the better our M is.
Hence my interest in leadership type qualities....
So, you have an interesting perspective. What have you done to equalize the power imbalance in your R?
I had a long response and then realized it would be better posted on my thread. I would have been hijacking!
Your last question? No clear answer. Left my stressful job in July, made sure I was home more to share more duties of the family and home. Learning to let him lead more and not be so dominant. These existential dichotomies always fascinate me. The very thing I needed, I prevented him from ....
A great book that helps me a lot is How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It.
M 55 H 58 M 24 T 29 S 22,21, 19 Bomb 4/10 It (A) really isn't about you 11/2013 We all have work to do
The truth will set you free, but it will almost kill you first.
MZ - I had a thought today which might explain part of my situation. I don't know why - but I thought I'd put it out there (here), in case it helps others. I was bullied pretty severely as a child. I only really think about it occasionally but for much of my school-age years bullying was a daily event. I don't know why no adult stepped in to help, actually. Since I was young and small I developed strategies to cope - some of these included simply giving up or giving in, not doing or wearing anything that could call attention, and staying away from large groups. I think at some point my whole physiology changed - when faced with conflict my body doesn't really get amped up to fight. It sort of shuts down. Not trying to tell a sad story. Nowdays I can take care of myself fine - I'm in very good shape, with years of martial arts training and, besides, as adults how often does one really need to worry about physical violence? - but that response is still there even after all those years. If it wasn't I know I wouldn't have these problems. I watch my boys closely and help them deal with conflict, and make sure that they need have to be in a position where they must endure what I did day after day. Sports give them a chance to win sometimes. And I'm ok with them fighting back against bullies at school - better than just taking it. If I could go back I'd have fought back every time (and taken the brutal beatings, for sure).
Anyway, my point is not that my W is a bully. But sometimes I react the same way, and that's not usually her fault. And it's certainly not attractive.
I don't know why I'm posting this. Sure it doesn't relate to your sitch. I guess I'm hoping it helps someone else - and maybe their kids. I think strong fathers build strong men, in part by protecting them from this sort of thing.
I think when we make assessments for ourselves in why we do what we do, it has to click for us. The "no meaning from outside ourselves is real" kinda thang. Glad you see a connection. H and I can personally see most of the replications of our past childhoods getting re-enacted. We push each others buttons.
I once heard someone say, "You know that child within stuff?" ...."That kid's been running the show too long, I say we kill the ba$!^&d!"
M 55 H 58 M 24 T 29 S 22,21, 19 Bomb 4/10 It (A) really isn't about you 11/2013 We all have work to do
The truth will set you free, but it will almost kill you first.
BTW, my H was bullied terribly too. He said kids would sometimes show up to his house and call him out to beat him up. No surprise that this was a part of his A. OW was one of those grown up (not so) mean girls. She had no friends in community or at work, thought she was brighter, better, faster. She liked dissing others....and guess what? The bully picked him! How special. Sheeshe!
M 55 H 58 M 24 T 29 S 22,21, 19 Bomb 4/10 It (A) really isn't about you 11/2013 We all have work to do
The truth will set you free, but it will almost kill you first.
Like I commented on MZ's thread, you are doing an excellent job at working to discover how you can improve YOU, which will ultimately lead to a happier marriage. I think in today's society, where so many women do work in positions with salaries that either match or top their spouse's, it's easy for men to slip out of the leadership role and let the wife take over. Even in my situation as a stay-at-home-mother, I'm the one who has pretty much run the show (paying the bills, deciding how money is spent, etc).
No question in my mind that your childhood has an impact on how you deal with conflict as an adult. I'm very sorry to hear that you were bullied and that an adult didn't step in to help you learn how to remedy your problems in a more effective way. Why not imagine yourself as that child again and how you as an adult would suggest for him (you) to handle the conflicts he (you) faced? Then, apply those same principles to your adult life.
Best wishes to you...you are on the right track by improving yourself in positive, healthy ways. It's encouraging to me as I begin the piecing process.
