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I've been going back to school part time for 3 years now, and have just begun full-time last month. The plan was/is for me to contribute in a financially significant way once I attain my teaching certification. Going back to school was my idea, not suggested by her. She's been supportive up until our fallout, when she decided that she didn't think I'd finish school. This leads to the next part...



There is absolutely something I'm missing, I just don't know what it is. It's emotional in some way, and while I have some ideas, any words coming from me are just going to sound like smooth talk. The formula you presented is a good indication, where I've been hung up is the time involved. My behavior has been consistent as far as habits go for 8 months. The emotional part has taken longer for me to level out, and I've only been consistent and even keel for 2 months or so. Unfortunately, I think that was past her point of no return.

So if there is still some secret ingredient, the only way I can discover it is to stop looking for it, and just continue being the best me I can.




She has told me from the outset of this that she feels like I used her, and my SAHD status to lead an easy life. She feels like I betrayed her trust and only wanted for her to carry me. She still feels this way, despite the fact that instead of walking away when confronted with this, I busted my ass do take care of the things that were concerning her. She only has ever listed physical things, other than months later saying she felt betrayed. She has also never said that she wants it to work out between us, and she doesn't want to understand the "why" of her emotions.

She even went to her IC with the goal of healing and moving on from me, not to try and understand us or herself. She told me this.

Again, I know I'm missing something, but I'm discouraged by her not even wanting to think staying together is a possibility. Even if I do find out about what I'm missing from the emotional puzzle, I can't address it directly without setting her off.

So I'm back to staying the course. Thanks for the reminder about the TIME it takes for things to have an effect. 9 months physical is all fine, but I've not given the 2 months emotional changes time to sink in. I'm still in the house, and MC starts Friday, so there are some things to look forward to.

Thanks again.

Okay, so a few things to journal...

Before she left for Labor Day weekend, she took down all the marriage photos and any photos of just us from the house (while I was gone at work). I haven't said anything about it.

She's also changed her FB to hide that she's married, though she's not going to change the status yet because she "doesn't want the questions". I did ask her about this one, and she pretty much just shrugged.

She's also apparently changed her gmail account to have her maiden name. I just saw this one, and I'm not going to say anything.

I'm fairly certain that she knows I know about these things. Though I do check on her FB page every now and then, I never comment online or in person about what I see there. Either she's just really moving on, or trying to get a rise out of me, I'm not going to respond. As far as I can tell, she's just half-assing it, since she's not actually saying anything publicly, but is changing some of her naming items. I see no reason to do all these things unless she's just trying to make herself feel better, "trying it out" or some such.

Either way, like I said, I'm not going to respond to this.

She came back today after 5 days gone, we had a nice time with the kids. I did a lot of "act as if" mingled with some of the 180 tactics of not initiating, lingering, being clingy or affectionate. I was nice, she was nice, it was good. When the kids went to bed, we had no discussion of what each other was doing for the rest of the night, though she did chat a bit about some mundane things. After that, she asked me about setting up time to transfer finances. I responded cheerfully with a date and time, and didn't make a big deal out of it. Then we each left and did our own thing.

Right now, she is seems relieved that I'm not being contentious regarding taking steps toward divorce. Given what some of you have said, I am happy with that result, while thinking (hoping) that at some point down the line it turns into consideration that maybe we could work things out after all.

I'm determined to take the high road, and be at peace with doing it. I will not allow my buttons to be pushed, and I will be proactive and not reactive. I'm in for the long haul, and thank you all (and DB) for continuing to help me develop my strategy.

Silver,

a few questions and comments. You wrote that



She has told me from the outset of this that she feels like I used her, and my SAHD status to lead an easy life. She feels like I betrayed her trust and only wanted for her to carry me. She still feels this way, despite the fact that instead of walking away when confronted with this, I busted my ass do take care of the things that were concerning her.
She only has ever listed physical things, other than months later saying she felt betrayed. She has also never said that she wants it to work out between us, and she doesn't want to understand the "why" of her emotions.

First, of course She won't say she wants things to work out. She doesn't believe that. She thinks she's done. I read my journal from 5=6 years ago. Some of it makes me mad all over again. But the thing is, some of what I wrote wasn't actually true, but some of it was, and isn't now. I don't feel the same as I did then. But I DID FEEL THAT WAY THEN...so don't write her words in stone and hold her to them. This is how it is, for now. That's all.

Second, you said that you somehow proved that you are not taking advantage of her by being a SAHD b/c you didn't walk away? I don't understand that comment.

How does that contrast with her claim? I'm not being critical, I just don't see how your response addresses her concern. Wouldn't getting a job and earning more money do more for that?

I believe, right or wrong, that most women want a man who can provide for his family. We know some couples with the wives earning more but it's not the same as having a sahd. And a SAHD who is resented by his wife has a problem.

How long has she felt this way? And btw, going back to school was your idea. Yeah well maybe that's b/c she feels that now she has even more work to do. At home when you are in class or studying SHE has to pick up the slack, not you.

And school costs something...so is she paying for that too? I mean, I really wonder if this is a root problem that you are sort of glossing over.

And as for the emotional parts...When I hear that, from a man, I often wonder what it really means. Are you saying you didn't verbalize your emotions? How about what you do express verbally?

I suggest reading the "Five Love Languages" by Chapman. Just so you know what she's really getting from you and what she's really missing out on. Second to DBing, I think it's one of the most important marriage books to read. Just a thought.

I still believe that at a core level, most w's want the father of their kids around if at all possible.

If you behave consistently as if the changes you have made are real and will last, there's hope.

What are your GAL activities? Any mystery to your new life?

BTW, Men/Women responded to a survey about what they most wanted/valued/needed from a spouse.

Men said "physical attraction" and "peace at home" (which I think means no nagging or drama at home).

Women said "Fidelity and security". Security isn't just physically feeling protected; it's more about knowing the bills will be paid and savings are accruing and that their h's are providing for them...

I hate ragging on you about this if it's something you both truly understood and felt good about and decided together. But I sense resentment of the arrangement for a long time on her end. So, here you are.

Do what you can and get that book, and think hard about a job that earns more- and how she'd feel safer and more secure, like she has a partner in her life.

Just a thought.

I'm with you there. Regardless of what she says, I think she at the point where she does want me to provide more financially.



I'm paying for my own schooling. She doesn't have to pick up the slack now, the kids are all in school. However, she did before they were in school. And she'll go back to having to do that if we end up in divorce.

I think the resentment she feels is due in part to me giving up my dreams of becoming a musician. She met me while I was singing, I was in school for music. All these things went away when I became a SAHD. It's something that just came to light about a month ago. I pretty much stopped doing everything that made me ME when I started staying home with the kids. As my IC said, what's best for the kids may not always be best for the marriage and therefore for the family as whole.

Neither of us realized this until about a month ago, as I said. The damage was done, however, and she still sees me as someone who has failed at life. She doesn't want to take the risk, by staying with me, of being disappointed again. (She hasn't told me this, or much of anything emotionally, it's what I've figured out via deduction). It's a big hurdle. So me going back to school was my way of saying I've figured out what I want to do with my life. She was all for it 3 years ago when I started, but when our bond was broken she now doubts that I'll be successful. I, on the other hand, have no doubt that I will continue to be successful. But she can't hear it from me, she won't hear it from me. And 3 years of results (4.0 gpa) don't seem to matter anymore.



I verbalize my emotions probably too much. I've always told her I love her, multiple times a day (except lately, she doesn't want to hear it). I've wanted to discuss feelings, she doesn't really. We are kind of the reverse of the typical man/woman; I want to talk it out, she wants to ignore it. I just started getting the emotional part of the 180 a couple months ago. Meaning that I'm not following her around like a puppy dog, I'm not asking her permission for everything, I'm not reminding her how much I love her, I'm not ramming it down her throat that I think she's making a mistake. I've decided to stop being needy, and start leading by example.



My IC recommended that book as well, looks like I'll have to pick it up.




Encouraging, thank you.



I've been playing out at open mics several times a month for the past 4 months or so. She never goes, so there could be mystery, if she was interested at all in me. Otherwise, I have few friends nearby, so there's not much going out with friends. I will be taking a weekend trip in October to see one of my old friends. Need to work on more GAL's, but I also have to work. Bleh.



I came to this forum in hopes that people would ask the hard questions to get me thinking, and you've done that. Thank you. We did decide that the arrangement was good at the time, but we should have seen when it wasn't really working about 3 years ago. I think you're right about her resenting this for a while.



I'll head out and get the book tomorrow. I hope I've explained it well enough that you see that it's not really the earning or lack of that's got her upset, it's the lack of success. While I've had success in some areas, I haven't yet attained what either of us would view as success in life. Some of that is changing life habits, some of it is measured in contribution. In any case, my failure to live up to my potential was a weight on us both. I've got the ball rolling now, and momentum and commitment can do wonderful things.

Thanks again.

More journaling...

We had our first MC session today. I decided to let my wife set the stage. She opened by saying that she's tried but she's got nothing left to give to our relationship. She stated that she wants the focus of our sessions to be able to establish a good communicative relationship in order to co-parent effectively. When the MC asked what I thought, I said that I also want a good communicative relationship, but not just for the sake of the children. I stated that for my own mental health, I will not give up on our relationship. However I am done pushing for it, since that just makes things worse. It was generally an assessment, and overall went pretty well I think.

Afterward, she mentioned (again) that she was concerned that I would try to fix our relationship. My stance has been for the past few months that while I haven't given up hope completely, my expectation is to move forward with our plans to separate and eventually divorce since that's what she wants. She then said that this [censored], and this isn't what she wants, but it what she feels like needs to be done. She then grew cautious again, and reminded that she hasn't and won't change her mind, and to not read anything into her sadness over the situation.

As I said, my expectations and plans are continue to move forward as planned. I've made it know that I am still willing, but will no longer be pushing for marriage. I have to say that the past couple weeks since I've put this attitude into practice have seen our relationship go from contentious to friendly. I don't know if our MC sessions or anything will grow our R further, but I'm just taking it day by day and keeping a positive attitude.

Journaling...

We have our second MC appointment tomorrow. The past week has been fairly decent, with only a couple minor misunderstandings. I've given her a hug a couple times when she was feeling down, but otherwise it continues to be hands off. One of my concerns is that she feels great about all this, and is looking forward to what she perceives as greener grass.

My birthday was Tuesday, and she told me that she didn't want to post to my FB because she didn't want to catch flack from my family. She still hasn't talked to them, and despite what I've told her, thinks my family all hates her. I gave her the advice about the current state of things, "Let it be", meaning don't worry about what other people think, do what you want to do concerning me. As with most things I say nowadays, it was shrugged off.

She mentioned that she is aware that after D, I will likely find someone relatively quickly, and she's okay with that. I've never mentioned anything like this, other than to say that it will be a while before I'm even looking, since I still have 3 years of full time school left. Again this is concerning for me, as it seems she is continuing to build up the walls around her to prevent her from seeing any other path than the one she chose a few months ago.

I'll write again after MC.

quick thought...

at the mc session (or with your w, idk) tell her that the c you are not trying to fix
the m

but you ARE trying to work on YOU, to grow and improve as a man and father.

You want to be your best self, etc. You can say you accept that she feels it's too late but these are changes you wanted to make anyhow, and "better late than never", etc.


BTW, you are only a year away from finishing school right? You can work at your career path and still play some venues pursuing your musical career too right?

I'm a L but also an aspiring actress. God help me if h "expects" me to "make it big"....I'm happy when I get paid and btw, I've got an MFA in it and am good.

But life happens, and even when you are great, there are no guarantees...

Hang in there. And don't see yourself as a failure or she will too.

In the end, failing at parenthood is really the only type of failure that no other achievement can outweigh...

in other words, if I fail as a mother, nothing else I do will ever make up for it.

same goes for you. Don't forget that.

This echoes something I read somewhere else on these forums. I do think it's extremely important that W knows that my happiness is due to the changes I've made in my life, not because I'm happy with the state of our relationship. I can't think of a way to present this, however, without it looking like I'm trying to convince her of something. Maybe it'll just come out in a no-bullsh!t moment when we are just being matter of fact, or perhaps it will come out in MC. Either way, I think it's important she knows, if she doesn't already.




3 years, however I've been playing open mic nights for several months now, part of GAL as well as something I've missed doing for myself. Glad to meet some fellow aspiring artists =) No matter how old we are, we will always aspire!



Thanks, a little encouragement goes a long way. I've saw myself as a failure for the middle part of our marriage, and had only begun to reshape the way I thought of myself in the past 3 years (since going back to school). She must not have reshaped though, because that was one of the things she said early on in bombland, that I failed at everything. Regardless, I've been consistent for this entire process, while improving my confidence and ability to deal with this situation daily. Thanks in no small part to DB and the folks on this and another forum I participate in. =)

sounds good.

Don't bother telling her that you are changing for you UNLESS she comments on the changes.

Otherwise it's just more "See me now??" Less talking, more DOING. In fact, zero talk about changes you make is best or it'll look like tactics to get her back instead of changes for you that are permanent.

Why not speed up school if you are a sahd or it's at all possible? Okay so you are doing some gigs, I get that. But taking the slow road to the degree isn't really helping you. Go summers too, anything online as well. There are faster ways especially if you've been at this for 3 years already. It would symbolize a lot too. Just saying...

Good work, and remember the "math" of this

consistent changes + sufficient time = change SHE can believe in.

I've been going 3 years part time, since I've been a SAHD full time. I only had about 36 hours going in. I've switched to full time, which is about another 3 years, especially since I have 2 years of teaching blocks (getting my degree in science education).