Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Am I blind and/or stupid?

Hey rick,

Here's a little background to give you an idea that many sitchs are the same...

I found my W and OM1 under the covers of our marital bed together, he fully clothed, my W in her night gown... I said nothing, grabbed the shirt I went there for, and left... Immediately my W (and another gf of hers that was there that morning) came after me and said "nothing happened"...

OM1 was a good friend of mine... He often made a point of popping by my place of work on a number of occasion afterward to chat... never once did he bring up the bed incident... yet it seemed that may have been his intention... I saw one text comm between OM1 and my W indicating a call I made to him asking about his sick SIL was "awkward"...

So... cousin, friend, co-worker, whatever... these people... like our spouses, it appears its just some addiction they have and they may "know better"... but that doesn't mean they stop... often... they just go deeper under cover...

I have no idea how they live with themselves and their conscience...

I have no idea how they live with themselves and their conscience...

The question for the ages I suppose...

I think that their conscience does bother most people and they fell tremendous guilt. But like a drug, they need another fix. At least that is how I perceive it!

Rick,

Sorry for the delay, I feel for you -- *knowing* something is going on, but not having proof or a confession is extremely maddening. WRT your question:

>>
Accuray - it seems like you are reconciling from some sort of affair. How the hell did you do it, survive it? You must be one strong person. Has anyone personnally seen the BD'ing techniques work? Seen a couple come back from separation and/or affairs to a stronger marriage? Can this set of Jedi mind tricks really work? And, I do know that techniques are to make me stronger too so I don't discount them despite the Star Wars reference.
>>

Yes, you can read about my sitch on the Sex-Starved Marriage forum under the title "New and Suffering", would still welcome comments there. I posted there instead of here, because our pre-affair negative dynamics were largely SSM related on my side (meaning I was high desire, she was low desire), and the SSM book really resonated with me (feeling rejected, unloved, etc.).

My W had an EA for about 6 months with a co-worker, prior to that was infatuated with / pursuing another co-worker who lived in Canada for about 5 months, and prior to that had been using FB, LinkedIn to flirt with prior boyfriends etc. She also hooked up with strange men at bars a couple times, but limited to 10 minutes of kissing each because her friends were present and trying to get her to leave.

Bomb was dropped on me (we're incompatible and I'm not happy) on 6/15. Between 6/15 and 7/15 I tried to DB, but was getting nowhere, because the EA was going on. My W was putting up an impenetrable wall emotionally. She was cordial but distant, and would get angry at the drop of a hat, there was no getting through to the "real" W at all. I could not figure it out. EA ended by OM on 7/6 (approx), and I discovered most everything on 7/13 by snooping. When I confronted was immediately asked for D, with no chance to reconcile.

Here's what I can tell you -- it was the most hurt I've ever been in my life, and the most pain I've ever suffered by an order of magnitude, it was absolutely brutal. Like you, I viewed my marriage as "good" and felt I was a better than average H. In my marriage, I had come to view my W as a "place of safety", someone to confide in, and who would console me. When I needed her the most, she wasn't there for me, and that has changed me forever.

WRT your line, we all have a line, and we do have to be true to it. My wife's EA did not go PA, but it was headed there for sure, and it was not one betrayal, it was at least 4. Is a PA worse than an EA? I guess my male ego says "yes", but David Schnarch says that in a heavy EA, you're already ML, you just haven't taken your pants off yet. My W was fully emotionally committed to OM, lots of love messages, referring to being with me as "torture", taking afternoons off work to be together, secret dinners while I watched the kids, the whole mess. I know it did not go PA because I spoke to OM (and his W) -- OM wasn't willing to go that far, and when my W started to press he broke it off and confessed. All of my snooping research confirms this. I can tell you that before this happened, I thought my "line" was any betrayal and I walk -- but when confronted with that reality, I decided I loved my W with everything I had, and that my M was more important than my pride.

Yes, we are reconciled now and putting things together well, but my "line" is one more betrayal and I'm done. Here's the mistake I think many people make -- they want to know the truth, yet they tell their spouse where their line is. i.e. "If you have a PA, we are done!", then later they will ask "Are you having a PA, I just want the truth". You're never going to get the truth after you laid down that ultimatum, it's a lose/lose for your spouse. I think you have to *start* with "I just want the truth" without giving any indication where your line is. That's how I've done it anyway, I did not threaten "W" or tell her "one more time and I'm done" -- I told her I always want the truth. I will be true to my line if the truth comes. I think it's generally understood in M, that cheating is over the line, so no need to call it out.

Here's what I can tell you -- if you view DB as "Jedi Mind Tricks" it will not work. It's not even a little bit easy to do, it's extremely difficult. I certainly wasn't perfect, but I committed everything I had to it. I would smile and not pursue, then go outside and throw up. The point is, though, you *have* to commit to change yourself. That's the only way. If you're just trying to manipulate your spouse back to you, it will not work because you are not committed, and your spouse will know it. I can tell you that I have fundamentally changed my attitudes and my approach to the M 180 degrees -- and I'm living it and committed, it's not just lip service, and it was (and is) damn hard.

In terms of results, my M is stronger than it's ever been. One thing I've learned is the importance of connection -- not communication, but connection. My W and I dedicate 30 minutes a night minimum for "connect time". The ML is better than it's been in 10 years (and more frequent). I feel like I have a best friend back that I lost for a long time, it's refreshing in many was. I've given up a range of hobbies and sports that I used to love, and I don't miss them at all, because I enjoy spending the time with W, so YES it does work in some situations. My W said I kept "surprising her", that I was a "new person", and that I have "turned everything on it's head", so I can tell you I did give it everything I had.

That said, everything is not "ok", I'm still very messed up from this, still seeing IC, have a prescription for anti-anxiety meds, still doing telephone coaching. I have forgiven, but building back the trust is extremely hard. If my W sees me "down" it triggers her to feel guilty, then she gets upset and I feel worse. My emotions are all over the place day to day, and I used to be very consistent and almost always upbeat. Now I feel manic in many ways with high highs and low lows. I can get "triggered" out of the blue by hearing her phone get a text, seeing a commercial for a movie about an affair, stuff just seems to rain on me sometimes and takes me down.

I was telling a friend that I would be the happiest guy in the world right now if I had the "Men in Black" mind eraser and could wipe out any knowledge of what happened, while preserving my changes.

I guess in summary, yes, it CAN work (but is not guaranteed to, it's just the best thing you can do compared to a range of crummy alternatives that WILL NOT work). That's how I'd look at it, if you don't DB, what ARE you going to do? I think people have found that whatever "it" might be, it's been tried a million times before and doesn't work, and that's how people find themselves here. Yes, your M can come out stronger after an affair, but YOU will not be Mr. Sunshine for quite a while, even if everything with W is as good as it can be.

A final key point I learned here is that a good M is work, it doesn't "just happen", it's not a matter of chemistry, it's not a matter of communication. I think many of us believe the "happily ever after" fairy tale. It's a daily decision to apply our energy to the M, regardless of what we got out of it yesterday. I have looked at *everything* that goes into running our household and caring for our children. There are some things my W always did that I just assumed became her job. I don't look at it that way anymore, it's our job, and I pick it up whenever I can, in whatever way I can. In order to do the work, there needs to be motivation, and the motivation is where connection, attraction, security, ML etc all come in. That's where things seem to fall apart, if we don't do the work, we take away our spouse's motivation, then THEY don't do the work, and eventually you are engaged in parallel lives, but are no longer connected. That's some of what I learned, just wish it wasn't such a painful lesson.

Good luck Rick, let me know if I can help in any way.

Accuray

One more thing -- I was "adopted" on the SSM forum by "The Captain" (TeaEarlGreyHot). He saved me in many ways, his advice was truly excellent, and I dedicated a lot of his time to my cause. I will be forever grateful to him, and I post here and try to help others in order to pay it back. I also got some great advice from Sandi2 and 25, this forum was key to making it work.

Accuray