Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Husband Left....

Yes, that is the million dollar question, if he never sees me, how will he know that I've changed?

Unfortunately you can't really control that, so you can only surrender to that fact. So many of us in this situation pursue DB "in order to get our walkaway spouse back". The *real* reason to pursue DB is for yourself, to make yourself a better person, and to find happiness on your own terms.

That is easy to say, but extremely hard to do for everyone, including me. The theory here, though, is that if you really DO turn things around, improve yourself, learn to find happiness without involving your H, pursue new interests and hobbies, meet new people, etc., 2 things will inevitably happen:

1) Through finding happiness and making new connections, you will need your H less. This will make it easier on you, easier on him, and better longer term if you do reconcile. Check out www.meetup.com in your area -- that's a low pressure, non-threatening way to meet new people. You can start your own event, and then people who are interested "just show up".

2) Your H cannot avoid you forever. Sooner or later, he WILL need to see you, over childcare, will need a favor again, something. The more progress you can make before that happens, the better. When he does see you, you want him to notice a significant change in your attitude, appearance, etc. More importantly, if he doesn't notice, you won't care as much! If you have mutual friends who notice the progress you're making, that will get back to him as well.

A few things to be aware of -- H *does* feel guilty for what he's done to you. He won't share that with you, because that makes him feel even worse. No one wants to feel guilty, so part of the reason he avoids you is undoubtedly to hide from his own guilty feelings. Another thing to be aware of is that in order to justify his actions to himself, he's had to make you the "bad person" in the relationship, even though you're not. He's built a picture of you in his mind that is not fair, and that's the perception he's living with, because it allows him to feel better about what he's done. He certainly doesn't want to think that he's the bad guy, and you're the only other one there, so it must be you! (It's so unfair)

After discovering my wife's EA I got some good advice -- everything you do needs to be calculated to reduce resentment in your spouse if you want them back. If you blame them, get angry, lecture them, they resent you for making them feel worse. If you let them think that your happiness is in their control, by begging, being sad around them, or demanding they resent you for giving them that responsibility. Resent translates to dislike, and that leads to avoidance.

The advice I received was to "normalize" i.e. "everyone enjoys falling in love again, everyone enjoys getting attention from the opposite sex". You can indicate that you understand WHY he does what he does, but stop short of condoning, or saying it's ok, just that he's not evil, he's human and you get it. That takes away the resentment that you blame them.

Then, if you GAL, 180, etc., they are no longer responsible for your happiness, you're doing that by yourself, and more resentment is lifted.

Now, they're free to engage with someone who is having fun, and who doesn't really seem to need them, and that is an attractive scenario to pursue for anyone.

Unfortunately, your H has issues -- he's a serial cheater. He's addicted to the thrill of the chase. In every relationship, the "in love" feeling and the pursuit eventually ends. At that point, the relationship becomes work. In order to do that work, there needs to be motivation. (I will work on this relationship because I feel good about myself when I interact with my spouse).

Your H appears to lack this motivation in any of his longer term relationships -- if he's not motivated, he's not going to seek counseling, he's not going to do the work on himself or the relationship. "Love Must Be Tough" suggests that he needs to undergo a crisis to be willing to change, and that there are things you can do to precipitate that, but the book is mainly oriented to "cake eaters" who want to stay in their marriage and have affairs too, so the prescription may not work if the spouse is ready to leave.

Therefore, if you get him back, but he continues to lie and pursue outside women, do you really want him back? Often when we are left, we want our spouse back because we can't have them. Is that a good reason to want them?

I believe that you love your H, but you probably want him back in a scenario that he's going to be faithful, and committed to you. In order to get that, he's going to need a lot of motivation, and the only way you're going to get there is not to need him anymore.

Tough I know, but in your scenario, GAL seems to be the absolute most important thing you can do.

--Accuray

I know when I found out he was having an EA, it devasted me. I really couldn't move past it. I think because he never told me he was sorry for hurting me so bad. The only thing he apologize to me was the excessive texting to her. Till this day, he does not show any remorse for his actions.

Yes, that is normal, you will not get an apology. Even if you reconcile you may never get one. Your husband is not unique in this regard, the spouse who has the affair does not apologize, and asking for an apology will make them angry.

If you Google for "affair recovery" you can research what you're going through and what to expect. Those sites will explain what he is thinking and why he won't apologize. Just know this -- he does feel badly and he feels guilty. He's ignoring you because he doesn't want to feel that way -- no one would.

That is why you detach and GAL, if you fix yourself and find peace, then he is able to approach you without feeling horrible guilt because you no longer seem devastated. Make sense? Easy to read, hard to do, but that's the only thing that might work. Pursuing or seeking admission of guilt or an apology never works, and has the opposite effect of what you want.

Accuray

Yes, everything you have said makes sense. I have never asked for an apology from him about that. Because I knew if I did, it would not come from his heart.

I am proud of myself for not contacting him unless it was about our daughter. And that's only been once or twice in 3 weeks.

I have been reflecting on myself and I did own up to my problems with him when we first separated. There were times that I did over react, but that came from the hurt and resentment that I had for him. I am working on finding peace within myself. And as far the GAL, well, I am taking night courses working towards my CPA degree. I do go out with friends once in awhile.

Thanks so much for your advice. I really appreciate it.

My pleasure, it's easy to get down on yourself and feel that this is your fault -- it's not. Your H made the choice to break his marriage vows, that reflects poorly on him, not you.

One thing I read is that it's typical for the betrayed spouse to feel guilty, that the relationship problems are their fault and that they pushed the other person away. That's not true, there may have been things broken in your relationship, but you both had a hand in that, not just you. Whatever negative behaviors you exhibited were a response to your needs not being met, or to defend yourself from hurt. If your H was a warm, loving husband who took the time to connect with you and support you, would you still have exhibited negative behaviors? No. Unfortunately your negative response provokes a negative response from your spouse, and that creates a self-feeding cycle that's hard to break out of.

Self improvement is not about fixing your deficiencies, it's about getting in touch with your needs, what motivates you, what motivates your spouse, and how to prevent or break out of those negative cycles in the future. It's a learning process just like the CPA degree.

You will get through this with or without H. The folks on this board have gone through the same types of experiences and are here to support you. Keep journaling, it helps!

Accuray

Well I found out last night thru a mutal friend of mine and my H that my H still wants a divorce. He said that would be the only way we both could start over with each other. We get the divorce, then we can date each other and take things slow and go from there. This does not makes sense to me. Is it that he doesnt want a commitment or is it then he figures if we are not married but dating that he would not have bounderies?

Does anyone have a clue?

I agree that doesn't make much sense. The only thing I can think of is that it would "wipe the slate clean" in his mind for some reason so that he could start again, and going back to a dating relationship will feed his desire to be "in love" and to pursue.

I would take it as a good sign that he wants to date you again! That's really excellent news. Focus on that, and don't make it too easy for him. With regard to the divorce, do nothing to help him.

--Accuray

That's what he said, it would "wipe the slate clean." Whether we are married or not, the baggage will always be there.

I am trying to look at it as a good sign. I really don't have a problem with us starting over and dating each other, if we have never gotten married in the first place. What I am afraid of with him, he is going to think since we are not married then he could do anything he wants without me saying a word. But doesn't he realize whether we are married or not, he will still be in a committed relationship.

He is a hard person to figure out. I am not going to do anything to help him out regarding a divorce. If he wants it, he can do all the work.

Truthfully, I don't know how I feel. All my friends say if he divorces you, then that should be it. IT'S OVER! But another part of me say, if we divorce, then why couldn't date and start over. I feel like he is playing me. Truthflly, I am confused.

First of all, the "wipe the slate clean" thing demonstrates quite a bit of immaturity on your H's part. As you point out, it will not wipe the slate clean at all, it will just put you both in a worse-off situation by consuming lots of money, time, and ill-will. Once it's done there's no way you're going to regard each other as if nothing has happened. That plan just doesn't make sense.

WRT how you're feeling, I have a couple thoughts -- when your H leaves you, you feel rejected, and that hurts. It is natural that when your H "rejects" you, you want him back -- for one because you feel it will erase your current pain, and secondly, the fact that you can't have him makes him more attractive! It clouds your judgement.

Please understand that getting him back will not erase your pain. Even if you reconcile you will have to deal with these feelings, and your trust will be shot, which impairs your feeling of safety and security. Therefore, you have to be good with yourself, and OK being alone, even if you reconcile. Know that it is normal that if you do reconcile, you will then question if you still want him back! May be hard to imagine now, but that is also normal.

On the other side, you need to disregard what your friends say entirely. You need to make your decisions based on how *you* feel. Engage your friends for support and to console you, but be skeptical of the advice they give. There's no way they are going to give you good advice unless they understand the joy your H used to give you, how attracted you are to him, and unless they've been through this kind of thing themselves and tried to reconcile. They simply can't walk in your shoes right now, so their advice just isn't that good. My friends, men and women, all said "she's crazy, move your money off shore, get a lawyer, and never trust her again!". That wouldn't have worked out so well for my kids, my financial situation, or my peace of mind. As it turns out, I stuck with it and was able to DB and reconcile.

WRT your H, there are issues there, so I definitely don't think you can take him back unconditionally. You need to GAL, you need to 180, you need to make yourself an attractive partner. If you can do that, then you will have the power you need in the reconciliation to demand some respect. He will need to *want* to be back (versus being half-hearted about it), and you will need to be strong, and not make it easy for him to come back.

I think I recommended "Love Must Be Tough" -- did you get a chance to look at that? As I mentioned, read with caution as some of it is outdated and/or gender stereotypical, but it does specifically deal with the scenario where you have a serial cheater or a husband who likes to "cake eat", and does not show your marriage the proper respect. That seems to be the case here, and you don't want him to come back and continue those behaviors.

It sounds like he's calling all the shots right now -- don't let him. Don't go along with his plans, don't agree to do what he says with your R. "Go dark" and do your own thing, unless it has to do with your child. This will make him wonder what you're doing and why, and that's what you want.

Here's the other thing -- if you read, research, and self-improve, you may be able to change your relationship entirely through your own efforts. If you understand how to make him feel loved, and approach with a positive attitude, then his attitude and approach must change in response. If you can make the relationship very good for both of you, there is no way he will want to risk that by flirting or messing around outside, but he will have to understand the consequences, and that you don't give second chances!

Be tough Hopeful, you will come through this stronger than you were before, and you will be fine with or without H. The decision to take him back is yours too, not just his.

Accuray