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You're doing it again. Did you read my posts Lila, or were they "too long"?

You sure you have nothing to say, b/c you'll just be "attacked"??

That's a pattern right there. Even when you clearly offended someone,

Either you want to "Start fresh" (= "ignore all the stuff I don't like...including questions I won't answer And Or glaring inconsistencies that explain the frustration the posters feel b/c no one understands ME...")

Or you'll withdraw b/c "everyone is attacking ME"...

objectively speaking you need to assess how that would sound if another person wrote it

Your reactions have at least 2 things in common;

1) you don't own a thing you've said or done,

and

2) you repeat your old behavior.

I guess the 3rd thing would be that You are the victim too, no matter what...

Lila, I spent a lot of time giving you specific examples of things that offended or irked people or that hold you back, b/c I don't think you get it.

You admitted that you don't know how you come across.

So I gave you specific examples, (including a significant one in which you offended me)

and now you play victim, saying you are being "bashed" and "attacked" by "everyone".

So.... you won't respond to or answer any questions or make amends...b/c you're being "bashed"....and "everyone is in an attack mode"

If you cannot take ANY form of feedback to help you improve yourself, (outside of us agreeing with your approach,) then you won't improve yourself.

and LBSers have to do that or they'll never get well or change or be happy.

ANd what is the point of us posting?

I have tried the velvet gloves, the gentle encouragement, and the cheerleading approach, but saw nothing change for more than a day or two. Lots of claims of insight and growth...but inevitably when you are tested by events or even ambigious incidents, you over react, you get mad, or play the victim,
You backslide & I see a worsening of your underlying issues vis a vis your ex bf. It scares me and the other posters.

You know at some level you have a problem. You know that posters are frustrated...I say theres a connection.

You risk ignoring us and our feedback at your peril.

Your ex bf said he "tape recorded" you as he took his/your d to his placem which you say was not agreed upon.

Ever wonder what is on that tape? Ever think it might NOT help you?

Ever think you might want to listen to us and change your approach?--

b/c we don't want to see you lose your d.

But I think you could, if you stay on your collision course.

If warning you about your collision course= an "attack" on you, if that's "bashing" you, then things are not going to get better soon, so be it.

Good luck. I think your resistance is among the deepest I've seen. Not a lot I can do about that.

25, quite the sarcasm, and I'll listen better. That's pretty basic, right? Is that an okay request?

I am going forward, and I simply don't have the time to read back through past threads, most of which have gotten very confusing to me. I'm asking to go forward not to disavow myself of anything, but simply for clarity, time, etc. Would you be okay with that? Would anyone else?

Speak now?



Possibly. In fact, I think I even said that. I don't know what you want me to do at this point. Can you be clear on that? Not talk about progress b/c in your estimation there is none? Make up negative stuff so you can continue to believe I don't change? Apologize to everyone one by one, go read your old posts and talk about them with you?

Do let me know. I'm not clear.



What is?



Okay. I'm here. So I'm not withdrawing.
What questions need answering?

What inconsistencies would you like me to address, 25?



Fair.



Okay, and so moving forward, say I do this, do I get a chance, or should we just keep bringing up old posts? I'm making changes every day, some of the deepest ones have been since Monday.



Or, possibly 25, here's a new version of that story: You used to behave a lot like a victim b/c that was your standard unconscious MO, but now it seems you are breaking free of that stance, and moving toward freeing yourself of codependence and taking action, responsibility, and ownership. Perhaps you, 25, have not seen evidence of that, and that is okay by me. I have nothing to prove to you. You don't live with me or interact with me every day. Stuff on here has gotten really tangled lately. Let's do this - we move forward and you have permission to call me on stuff, and I will try to respond different, address your points, apologize where needed for anything insulting, etc.



Where is the boundary here? Why are you advocating for others. Maybe we just all need to stay in our own sandboxes?



This feels more appropriate to me. This, I appreciate. Thank you.



I got this. And I also sincerely said I was sorry - did you read that post? Was it too positive?



Victim? I don't know. It is starting to feel like a hostile environment. Are you okay with feedback like this?



Actually, I've mostly done it out of not advancing more insanity in my posts. Are you willing to believe me here?



"ANY"? Do you think this is true, 25? Have I not?



Right, which is why I'm back to asking for going forward. I can't correct what's happened in the past.



Eek. What is a day or two in forum world? This feels like pretty defeating expectations. Can you give me a chance?



Again, rather than telling me what other posters are fearful of or feeling, let's talk about you.

BTW, we all recognize that this is a public forum, right? And I'm not going to live by every single thing everyone says, right? That I do have the right to take some of it and not the rest. I'll get better at writing back to people. I've just been busy.



No. I'm not necessarily connecting this. A bunch of people who often will act abusively, judgmental, and critical on a forum, who I've never met, who could be projecting, I'm not going to say "that's my problem" because someone I don't know is frustrated. Ever heard of "Other people's opinions are their business?"

BUT - having said this, it does not mean I don't find MANY (not all) of the posters information valuable and helpful. I often - more often than not - do. Lately, though, it's been a bit of a madhouse, which is why I'm just trying to start fresh.



I'm sorry that you maintain this, 25. But it's clearly not true that I'm ignoring (Again, I'm going to say you - as I will address one person at a time, rather than the more nebulous "us")



25, this is the kind of stuff that concerns me. Perhaps you respond to so many posters, you don't catch details; honestly, I don't even know what this means. This is incorrect information. And this is a perfect example of where I back off from time to time b/c I honestly don't know what facts people have straight and don't have straight.



Okay, so I'm going to go back and tell you the info that is accurate. exBF threatened me with audio recordings he said he captured IN THE PAST of me "yelling at him" - and that's what he's taking to court. He said this the day he barged in and was throwing D's stuff in a bag.

Do I wonder what's on them? I guess. I don't know if he's telling the truth or not.
Do I think it might not help me? I don't know. Depends on a lot of things. What is there to do about it, though?

Ever think you might want to listen to us and change your approach?--

b/c we don't want to see you lose your d.

But I think you could, if you stay on your collision course.

If warning you about your collision course= an "attack" on you, if that's "bashing" you, then things are not going to get better soon, so be it.

Good luck. I think your resistance is among the deepest I've seen. Not a lot I can do about that.


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Lila, you do have a unique ability to frustrate people! But I totally give you credit for coming back and trying to get it, honestly I do.

One of the most important things you can learn, is to try to view events through a different window. If you look out the front window of your apartment, you see one scene - if you look out the side, you see another. Sometimes you have to make a CONSCIOUS EFFORT to look out a different window.

Some of us have been trying to get you to look at certain events through a different window, in order for you to reach a better understanding. When it comes to exBF, sometimes trying to see events through HIS window will be helpful to you - whether or not you agree with his interpretation of events.

So, for instance, I can imagine THIS interpretation of the events of last week:

ExBF has been telling you for months now that he was leaving, R was over, you needed to work, etc etc. You kept tugging on the rope (instead of using the useful trick of dropping the rope, which might have made him reconsider) by dragging your heels, telling him you needed him to come get D to sleep, not weaning, D can't go to his apartment yet, you needed more time for everything (I understand that you do not do transitions well, Lila, and that this all was a lot to absorb and process - but it is also true that 99% of LBSs here do not get that kind of time or money to transition).

ExBF, because of his OWN issues, appears unable to just say no to you, so he "agrees" to all these things, even though deep down it's not what he wants. For instance - he wants to take D to his new place. But you lay all this guilt on him about how D needs time to transition (really, this is about YOUR need to transition, at least when it comes to her seeing his house). Finally he gets so frustrated that he decides he's just going to man up and take D there, regardless of what you say. He's a bit scared of you, so when you start to mount resistance to the idea, he gets mad and makes a scene (he's probably also terrified that you are going to keep his daughter from him).

I know you were probably scared that he was going to take D and keep her. Not an unreasonable fear - the solution for that is to hurry up and get a court order for support and visitation (which we have all been urging you to do for weeks now). But given that you DIDN'T have that in place, really, going to the police station was over-reacting, and leaving the abuse pamphlet out for ExBF to find was at best foolish since it bolstered his fears that you might keep D from him.

Just one example that I keep trying to get you to see - you keep thinking you have these "agreements" with exBF, but he's really not on board with them - he's just afraid to say no to you.

(In future relationships you need a guy who will stand up to you better, btw. )

And on a practical note, I would NOT make any of your financial plans based on money ExBF has promised you. I think the same principle is operating - he "agrees" to certain things because he can't stand up to the onslaught of your words and logic - but he really doesn't want to do that, and so deals with it passive-agressively by not actually giving you that money (while you are running up all these bills. Seriously - how can you AFFORD all this counseling???)

(and btw, if he's already $12k in debt, he's NOT going to be giving you $9k. Just a sad fact of life. So don't dig yourself an even deeper financial hole by continuing to spend as if he is giving you that money.)

Have you ruled out the possibility of living with your folks for a while? Can you actually afford to stay in an apartment?

Lila,
I'm sorry you feel attacked, abused, and berated. I'm sure that is no one's intentions. I don't know too much about your past, but I can only assume that those feelings started long ago, before this board, your BF. Those feelings are there because SOMEONE in your life actually did those things... so you're brain started training itself to defend your heart.

Again I may be making assumptions, but if I'm not. Know that it's ok.. and that it's understandable.. but also know that all the power lies within you. We can sit here and say we are not attacking or berating, but you have to SEE it. And maybe that's what you may need help with more than anything.. destroying that defense mechanism.

I don't know if you are a religious person or not, but my pastor talked last week about the body of the church - I think I express in a different way.

We NEED people in our lives. We aren't perfect and will struggle with something while we are in this world. The people in our lives help us with our gaps and flaws. That is not to say they complete us.. but God has put them in our lives for a reason. They provide strengths to our weaknesses, give us glasses when we can't see, pick us up when we fall down.. etc.

That includes the people on this board.

You asked why if one person says one thing, why does 20 people have to say the same thing??
Just because a general message is said 20 times doesn't mean it's the same.. it's not..by a long shot.

There are times that I often get the "same" advice, but the way people communicate it to me is so different. They bring strengths that I don't either possess or refuse to use in the moment. By seeing that - I am no longer limited by my fears, insecurities.. and sometimes stupidity. I can use their strengths to provide me with the strength I need in that moment.. and that is sooo awesome!

Perhaps you could try to look at people's feedback from that perspective.

Please try. Please try and see that they are investing in YOU. People who don't care.. don't invest.. period.

They are frustrated.. of course they are.. they care!!!

But see if from a place of love, not hate. A place from wanting the best for you vs. beating you down.

If you do that, you WILL see a drastic change of how these wonderful people can contribute to your life.

KML, honestly this is why I get a little frustrated and want to move foward and stop getting bogged down with so many metaconversatoins about my reactions.

I have made a lot of progress int he dept of living arrangements and $$ but the assumptions keep coming. I want to post here about that stuff, so is it okay with everyone if we move on now?

KML, that is one interpretation, yes. EXCEPT

We now have agreements in writing.
exBF no longer wants to take D to his house (???)
I told him to on Saturday and he said no. He said, "It was just that once" and then told MC "I know we didn't agree on this." And didn't make an argument for it.

To me, this continues to indicate that he throws curveballs. It is sooooo consistent with his behavior for three years, it's just reached a new level.

But I do see your interpretation. It's not at all what my gut is telling me.

Therapy is $40 a session. I'm not sure what you're asking about affording it. Is is 10,000 times more valuable to me to get through to someone and have them give me feedback and hold me accountable, then going through these boards sometimes and the pages and pages of accusations, misunderstandings, having to console people, etc.

I'm doing it 2x this week b/c things have been so intense. I talked to her in 20 mins. I'm excited. She's phenomenal. And fair- and defends exBF but also is truthful about stuff and talks to me about D and what's good for her, etc.

I've been wanting to bring this up b/c I don't know how to deal with it, but I'm about to talk about it in therapy- but I will say it here.

When we were in our longest stretch of MC (from about Oct 2010 to June-ish 2011), the MC tried to show exBF how when we'd get close or things would go well he'd blow it up and push me away by being sarcastic, putting me down, getting passive-aggressive.

This is part of when I realized he was very very tough to get close to. He finally broke down one night and sobbed admitting how much anger he carried around, and then later told me he was so sorry and scared, and held my hand and said he never wanted to let me go.

But he quickly closed up again after that.

As I've stepped WAAAAY back to the point where I barely interact with him, I observe that when things are well here, it's the same; it's like he can't stand it, can't maintain it, and he admitted that to me before - that he was in a "good" R before me, but he "freaked out" and that he apparently thrives on chaos.

Nice.

So I am moving toward low-key, drama free, so focused on my stuff, so on a system b/c I have 16 hour days and need stuff to get done, and I could feel that night coming - I was posting on here going "Something's up with exBF" and sure enough WHAM.

I felt that, hard. It's taken me a week to recover (which is my problem, which is also why I found a new IC and am getting moving now).

(BTW, I'm still amused by your inquiry into how I can afford T - but anyway - he pays for MC) He said he's giving me 4K for October, but I have to sign some paper.

Anyway, I feel sort of intimidated by this now. As I did back then. Like I worked really hard to do what you guys said "If you know he's going to be late, don't react. If you know he's going to ignore her bedtime, don't react, etc..." I got that down. That day, I had it down, he called, he was late, I didn't react. He was an hour late to MC the other night (it's a 90 min session) I didn't react. He was 15 mins late to come see D today, didn't say anything. But he'll always find a new way to throw me a curveball, and I'm trying to figure out how to deal with that.

There are very few consequence or repercussions in his world. Today, I called him at noon and I was waking him up. Like I don't know what that world is - but anyway, I am trying to safe-proof myself. B/c he wants reactions out of me.

I will add more about something else I wanted to bring up here later, and will probably post about IC.

(Oh, and thanks Valeska).

Just a quick note on the apt. thing. I really love my home, and I hate to have to leave- 2 sessions in a row MC and exBF "ganged up on me" and were like "don't leave" it makes no sense, if I were you I would stay, etc. it'll cost thousands (???) to relocate. Keep D stable, etc. etc.

Um. Hello. Are you paying the bills? I was with a friend ystrday who is also looking for a 2bdrm with her H and she gave me some listings so I'm hopeful - b/c when I went over my budget with MF last night, going from 1475/mo plus all util and heat is high here b/c the landlord won't fix it and it's wasteful -to 1000/mo incl util would be huge. Not enough to save, pay debt and do IRA - right now - but better.

My parents? Ugh. I want to pay that darn debt off so I can then free up that money to save/ira/d college, but IDK - stakes are pretty high there, my mother is still pretty much unwilling to have me move back in (although I do believe it's cause of fears she has so I think she'd be okay if she was clear that I'd be taking care of most everything and live there for a short period). My dad is just a nightmare - I was there for 20 mins last night to pick up D, and he yelled at me that she ate too much rice pasta (???) citing that other children who eat carbs get fat, etc. (So bizarre, I wasn't even there for dinner) and that she has to have dairy, and started feeding her yogurt, even though I told him not to, and then sneaked and fed it to her - um. Dairy gives D instant diarrhea, and she's not sleeping again - it was her bedtime. Thanks dad. Then later berated me for not being more up on Steve Jobs or something.

I don't think it's a great environment for D by any stretch, though she loves them. I kind of imagine doing it for 6-8 months, but it would be hard to lose our current sitter, and lose the stuff we have here (our doctors etc) only to relocate again (probably back up here, I think I decided though not 100% sure). Not sure if that would be worth it.

But I am going to continue to work with MaleFriend on money stuff.

Why is this amusing??? $40 5 times a month is $200. When you are spending more than your income, that's $200 a month you are borrowing from somewhere, that's $200 a month that isn't going to paying your debts, that's $200 a month you can't afford. I'm not questioning its value to you - I'm just saying that it may be a luxury you can't afford.

And what kind of paper does BF want you to sign, exactly, before he gives you the $4k? I would be very wary of signing anything without a lawyer's advice.

And frankly, I doubt the written agreements you have now are worth the paper they are written on, from a strictly legal standpoint. I know you keep stalling on getting official child support and visitation done because you think you will get more money from ExBF if you stick to this informal arrangement - but I have to tell you, it makes me very nervous, because you have no legal protection right now.

First of all, it's not ganging up on you if they are offering you advice, just because you don't like the advice!

Second - YES, it DOES cost thousands to move usually, because you have to come up with first and last months rent, you never get back all of your deposit on the old place, you have to rent a moving van (assuming you have friends who will help you move and don't have to hire movers also), and if the utilities are not currently in your name but in BFs name, you will likely need to pay deposits to the utility companies. So - as an example - ASSuming your current apartment you paid first and last months rent when you moved in - you give one month's notice and don't have to pay rent that last month (saving $1475). But you have to come up with first and last and deposit for a new place that rents for, say, $1100 a month - that's $2800 if the deposit is $600. Add in $150 to rent a truck and buy pizza for friends who help you move, and $300 in deposits for various utilities. Assume you get none of your deposit back on the old apartment (you have had a child there, after all, and landlords usually do find a way to not give you the deposit).

That makes $3250 in new expenses minus $1475 last month rent = $1775 you have to come up with. You would have to live in the new place for at least five months before you recouped that expense. So no, it might not make sense to move to another apartment yet, at least not until you have your a better idea of what you are doing.

Now - if you could move somewhere that doesn't require first and last, OR if you could just get a room mate in your current apartment (yes, I know, you keep insisting that is not a possibility, but financially it's a better deal - think about it)....