Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Finally confronted H on affair...Now what????

good points...

she has no L and he SAYS he has no L....but she has nothing to gain in mediation since her h wants to give her less than required by law AND
besides

her L, if she gets one AND IF they divorce, will likely recommend mediation for the issues they CAN resolve (custody or visitation/holidays).

Here, she knows he's not wanting to be fair, an OW exists probably pressuring him

and she has NO lawyer watching out for her. Does everyone get that all I'm suggesting is she consult a L??

(And that the formula for figuring it out here, in uncomplicated cases, is fairly straightforward. HER H is the one saying the "L's will take from our children" whereas HE wants to take from them...imo.)

I also believe that financial reality can be very UNromantic for OW's and sometimes, now and then,

if the LBSer is super upbeat and warmly makes the WAS think things CAN be better, that can make it too costly to divorce.

25, kml & InAPickle - thanks again for your input. It is so nice to get feedback and advice from others. Like I said before, what I usually hear lately comes from all well-intentioned friends and relatives that think I should just give up on my marriage and move on without H.


25 - Thank you for pointing out how pointless it is to ponder about H and OWs current happiness. It resonated with me - IT'S ABOUT CREATING MY OWN HAPPINESS. And I feel like I am slowly putting it in practice in some areas of my life. It is very hard not to think about H and OW, but I am getting better and that is the key to letting go of my anger, since that is the one trigger that makes me lose it with H sometimes...

I have been rather depressed for a couple of months now (maybe post-partum?). I realize it when reading my latest entries and journal. So what to do about it? List the positives and keep them coming. So here I go:

- When H left, I think I first was completely paralyzed and broken down. I could not carry conversations or function in any way. Close friends and relatives said I was devastated and I can now see why. But little by little my emotional state of mind has improved. Granted - there are still many, many moments where I am sad and overwhelmed with emotion by my own situation, but I at least now I have MOMENTS where I not only don't think of H, but actually enjoy some aspects of my life.

I find that I am not only once again enjoying being with my children, but I have a whole new appreciation for them and I make sure to express my love to them all the time. I am also trying to let go more and have more fun with them. I still go thru very tough moments and I still sometimes find myself trying to hide tears and sadness in front of them, but things are definitely improving.

I also find that the stop sign technique is helpful when thinking either of OW or remembering happier times with H or thinking about the imminent D.
Another perspective that has helped me is to view my situation differently. I am NOT giving up on my M or R with my H. BUT, I am putting it ASIDE for now. It is now going to the back burner, while I work on MY R with MYSELF. So I am focusing on the list of things I need to work on, and not worry too much about going dim, dark, be a friend, etc. I am simply being friendly when H is around and that is it... The focus is on me, and I have A LOT to figure out and take care of in the near future.

First, I need to take care of the administrative stuff.
I have to trade in my car for a minivan. It turns out that three car seats don't fit in my car and it's just not safe for the kids, should I end up in an accident. And we are out of money. So I will be getting a used minivan that can last me for at least 5 years (when my credit history hopefully bounces back after the short sale of our town home).

I also have to fire our nanny. I am dreading this so much... (One of the reasons I have not taken any managerial position in my career has been this - I don't want to have to fire anyone - I just feel terrible about it.) And now I need to do so to the person that has helped me care for my girls for almost 4 years, since my first born was 3 months!
But we just cannot afford her while I don't work and we are currently paying an arm and a leg for pre-school as well. I will have to talk to her this Friday... (I have procrastinated for almost a month now, and it's costing us money that we don;t have anymore...)
I don't know why it's so hard.

Then I have to concentrate on finding a job. A new job - something I can do from 9 - 3pm, so I can spend afternoons / evenings with my kids. The 12-hr days are over for me (and therefore my career in the entertainment industry). And i am ok with it. (Although I know H won't like it at all...Oh well - too bad for him.) Ironically, for years, my work schedule was a problem in our marriage and now that I am cutting back, he is not happy because I will make A LOT LESS money. He should be happy that I am spending more time with OUR kids, since he is not. Life is crazy sometimes...

I have talked to my cousin and she will help me with the little one when I get back to work, and I will pay her, although less than our current nanny.

And once I get a new job and figure out how much $ I will actually make, it will become apparent very quickly if H and I be able to keep our house as business partners - the one we bought almost a year ago - the one where we would raise our kids and grow old together...

And speaking of house and money - I did talk to a lawyer about 3 weeks ago. It was a 1-hr. consultation (paid). By the time we went over my situation, we only had time left to run some numbers. He ran three scenarios for me of how much H would need to give me monthly if a) I didn't go back to work, b) If I went back to work and made 50% of what I used to c) If I earn what I used to (which won't happen once I reduce my hours).

The numbers are very high and H will be (or most likely is already) in shock. I know him and I am sure he already consulted a L himself, although he has not said so to me. That is probably why he is so intent on me going back to work asap. I think he thought I would go back to my previous job, but I was clear with him last week that I would be cutting my hours drastically and probably even changing careers, and that it will take me some time to find the right job that fits all my criteria.

Anyways, after the L ran the numbers, he suggested that maybe H and I do a collaborative divorce process. Each one will have a lawyer, but they collaborate rather than go at each other's throat, to draft an agreement in the best interest of the family and specially the children. This approach seems very good to me for two reasons:

a) I NEED a lawyer. My H is so much more well-versed on our financial situation, taxes and laws in this country than me. I think I have now decided that I won't feel I have equal footing with him thru mediation. I agree with 25 that I need to have someone looking out for me and I also agree with 25 that H wants mediation so he can give me less $.

b) I DO NOT want to go thru a vindictive, nasty divorce, with shark lawyers that just want to go for the jugular. On the other hand, I also don't want a lawyer that will not be telling me when to back down or compromise if that is in the best interest of my kids. I want to be fair because it's the right thing to do and because I am ultimately setting an example for my kids.
And from what I have read and researched, it sounds like this collaborative process will be taking into account their best interest and that is what I ultimately want.

I didn't have time to cover the mediation or specifics of the separation process with the L during that meeting, so that is why I was asking about it in my previous post.

The only question left in my mind is if I should file for legal separation NOW or wait....(The one thing that is clear to me is that I will NOT be filing for divorce. Yet I am sure that if I file for separation, my H will immediately go for the divorce.)

Why file now?
- To clearly spell out visitation rights (it looks that we finally have an agreement, but it's too soon to know if it will work)
- To avoid having H take or spend the remaining $ (mostly from 401k), which is what we would both use to pay lawyers anyways.
- To clearly divide financial obligations and assets as well as health insurance (current home, investment property in partnership with my parents, debts, 401k, future tax deductions and benefits, health ins, life insurance....)

why wait?
- He has agreed to let me take the kids to Mexico for the holidays so I can visit my siblings and family that I have not seen in 2 years... If I file now, he will be pissed off and might not let me take them. So one option is to wait until after the holidays...
- As of now, he has not stopped making any payments on our bills (except for the town home that is going to short sale). Once we have financial separation clearly spelled out and short sale goes thru (and H has to pay his own rent), he might change his mind about trying to remain business partners in the house and may want to sell it. After all, why would he spend a GOOD chunk of the money he will have left after child support and alimony to help pay for a mortgage on a house that he won't even live in, while he will have to live really tight elsewhere??? (I don't know that I would personally do so either, if I was in his shoes). Yes, his kids will live in the house and go to a great school distric, but for all he cares, I could just rent in the same neighborhood and that won't be an extra expense for him...
- He might not file - yes, I remain hopeful that he may realize how difficult both our lives will be after a divorce, and he won't file...

Any feedback / advice will be very much appreciated...
-------

Anyways... this week continues to be good for ME. No arguments, no triggers, no drama with H. He came yesterday and took the kids for some frozen yogurt. (Under our new schedule, he is to be with the kids outside my house on Tuesday and Thursday. He can pick them up at anytime, but needs to bring them back by 7:30 since these are school nights.) But because of work, he can't make it here before 6:20, so he really only has 1 hr. - not much to take them anywhere. Well, that is not my problem now - welcome to the life of a separated man... When he picked them up, I was friendly. I had prepared the diaper bag and a bottle for S (3months) and helped put sweaters on the girls. Then I took my purse, said my goodbyes, and left to run some errands. When I came back, I was again friendly and he left shortly there-after.

And today, we had to go together to pre-school open house. As always, I was engaged and having fun with girls. Lots of laughs, giggles, hugs, kisses and smiles. I was excited to see their school work and was pleasant with other parents and kids. H was more detached and even though he was happy to be with kids, he even looked almost sad at times. I didn't ask if anything was wrong, just concentrated on making our daughters feel important and loved and treated him in a friendly way.

I am also continuing to work on my physical appearance and exercising as well. I like the compliments I get (specially in front of H) and I have set my next goal - run a 1/2 marathon in mid January.

I am also talking to my friends on the phone - at least talk to one friend each day and I see at least 1 of my girlfriends a week.
I am also organizing a small girls wine and cheese night at my place. Since I can't go out much, I think it's time to start entertaining at my place again. I have always loved that and why not?

I am also following the advice of a fellow DBer - one night per week I will open up some wine and play some nice music and spend an evening just enjoying that. I did that on Tuesday and it was great...

I have also been reading A LOT on these boards lately - but only success stories for now. They are inspiring and a source of a wealth of knowledge.
BTW - 25, I managed to read ALL your threads from the beginning... It took a while, but your story is amazing and I can see the progression in your personal growth and change. Once again, congrats on your accomplishments!

Another very long post - I am sorry. I think I need to post more often and shorter entries. i will try that, I promise.

Journaling...

I had my counseling session today. I feel it will be very beneficial to me. I love talking to my DB coach, which I now have to drop for finacial reasons, but right now I am going thru a lot and realize I need to be very strong and healthy. This counselor specializes in anger management and I think that is the #1 emotional issue I need to deal with right now.

We talked about my triggers. She wants me to develop self-awareness at the MOMENT when I feel angry, not afterwards. So I will be paying attention to those moments and writing about them as soon as they happen. That will be very good, I think. I am good now at looking BACK and realizing what I have done wrong, but the awareness at the moment, will be a huge improvement. I think the next step after that will be prevention BEFORE it happens. We'll see.

We also talked about ways in which I can help my daughters - there is so much they are going thru - separation, relatively new house, new baby, new pre-school for my almost-3 year-old...

Plus with our financial issues, now they will lose their nanny (another important figure will be leaving their lives) and if we cannot save the house, another move will be coming up at some point in the near future. So I need to be their rock more than ever to make them feel secure and loved thru all of this. And to do that, I first need to feel that way myself...

---

I am actually looking forward to going to Mexico for the holidays. Two weeks with all my family - parents, siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles nieces, nephews... We are a strong-knit family and a large one as well. I am looking forward to have them all support me and my kids, pamper us and just make us feel loved. I also know it will be great for the girls. And even though it will be hard for them not to be with their dad, they will have a good time. For H, this is high season at work, so we would not be seeing much of him until after Xmas anyways... Better be there than sitting home missing him.

More to come later. Trying shorter and more frequent posts now...

Good week. No arguing with H. So my small, specific goal was accomplished. Friday was interesting - kids got lice at pre-school. So it was a loong day. And D3 also got a stomach flu bug that same day.

I was cranky most of the day thinking - on top of everything, I have to deal with all of this alone. No team with H...that hurts, specially thinking it will be like this all the time. It's not like I can't do it. Now I know that I can (which I didn't 10 months ago), but it's just plain sad.

When H came over that night after work, I was friendly and he helped a lot with the kids. It's nice when we work together. I do know that he cares about his kids a lot and he genuinely seems to want to be friends. So many times he treats me politely and friendly, unless he is crabby. But I cannot be friends with him...He is my husband and I love him. How could he expect that? He wants us to be friends and for me to be friendly with OW and for everyone to accept her.

After we finally had all kids asleep, he stayed for a bit. We talked about his problems at work and I validated and listened intently. I always look at him in the eyes, but he never does look at me in the eyes. I was trying to remember if that was the case when we were still together and cannot even remember. So sad...

He brought up a sitch with an employee that has anger issues. He then talked about me. How I have a public and private persona. How in public I would never get mad and that is why people didn't believe I had anger issues. And how diff. I was in private.

I listened and acknowledged. I said I saw it simpler. There were people I was angry at and others I wasn't. He didn't believe that, I think.

He also brought up how diff. we saw things all the time and how we misperceived things. I agreed - our communication was always bad and we both ended assuming things about each other.

I don't know if that conversation was good or not.
He said thank you when he left, but I just felt depressed about it.

Saturday...

We had a great day! I was going to take the kids to the pumpkin patch and invited him. The kids were sooooo happy (they love it when we are all together). And H and I had some good laughs and a good day. We were back to treating each other as good friends. We talked about different things and it was nice. Not much eye contact yet, but a couple of times he did look at me when he was talking to me.

I let kids and H choose the pumpkins and he said he'd come carve them with us as a family... He said he had a good time.
We then came back and he offered to give girls a bath while I made dinner.

I assumed he would stay and eat with us. That is when things got sad. After bath, he said he was starving and asked if he could eat and run. He had to go do laundry and go buy groceries. (I knew OW was arriving to town that night...) Thruout the afternoon he got increasingly fidgety with the phone - checking texts and messages more and more.

That has been a trigger, but I let it all slide. No comment or anything. It felt good to be in control, knowing that he would be doing that.

Right before he left, he took a call outside. A short one. Then he came back and put the phone down. I could see a text from OW - don't know what it said.

He was in a hurry - gave kids a very quick kiss and left. Things change so quickly when she comes in the picture...


So I feel my choices are -

a) be friendly but go dim / dark, hoping he will miss me. But right now, given how bad our R was, there is not much to miss
OR
b) treat him as a friend for a while, strengthen our R, so he can have something to miss, and then go dim / dark

Any thoughts or imput will be appreciated.
thanks!

Sunday - H was MIA - he always is when OW is in town. Spent the day with the kids and had a good time. The girls miss their daddy so much... they constantly ask about him. D2 mentions things or events in which H has participated...

At night, both girls wake up at least once crying - sometimes they ask where daddy is and sometimes they ask to sleep in my bed. And the little one is still not sleeping thru the night.

So for me, nights are definitely the toughest... Seeing my kids struggle, being sleep-deprived, and knowing that I am dealing with all of it alone. H has no clue how nights go in our house. I never tell him - he will think I am trying to make him feel guilty and he won't believe me anyways. He always comments how happy the kids are with him and seems surprised that they would be having a hard time.

OTOH - During the day, things are better. I continue working on myself and I think I have come a long way. When he first left, I would cry all the time when I was alone - shower, driving, in my room, anywhere. Sometimes I would even need to get away from people, or the kids or go to the bathroom at work to cry. Now I find that I cry only two or three times a day. And I also find myself enjoying some things. I am also eating better and looking forward to certain things, whereas when H left, I could not even think of anything besides my situation. So yes, I have come A LONG WAY.

More to go, but it's true - time does help heal...

Yesterday H called and came over after work to see the kids. We were both polite and nice. I read somewhere in these boards that it is a good sign when your spouse shows anger towards you because it means they still care. My H has absolutely no anger. He is pleasant and has told me he wants me to date, be happy and be friends.

I can tell that he doesn't miss me AT ALL. Plus anytime there is a mention or reference to OW, he expresses complete happiness.
I regret so much what I have done to him. I have lost him and realized too late how valuable he is. Now, another woman has his love.

I was perusing some books on amazon on emotional abuse. H says that our marriage was 13 years of emotional abuse. The way one book describes it is horrible. I had a lot of anger and according to the book, I am a horrible, horrible person. It says there is almost no hope of a verbally abusive woman to change and that relationships that suffer from verbal abuse just don't survive. The abused spouse ends up meeting someone that treats them right and never turns back.

As I read, I cannot believe I was that horrendous person, but I was. I don't think that going dark on my spouse will work. He truly believes I was mean and he was afraid of my every reaction. I need to show him that I can have a R with him where there is no anger. Regardless of how I felt in our marriage or what part he had in it, I need to put all that aside and just become a completely new person.

And then, and only if his R with OW ever fails (it becomes stronger everyday), then maybe he can someday trust that I have changed. Right now, it is just unfathomable in his mind.

Forgiveness is really becoming harder than I thought. I still beat myself up for my mistakes. I need to work on that some more.

I guess I am really down today after reading that book...

I hope that if anyone is following my thread, they can offer some advice / support.
thanks!

"It says there is almost no hope of a verbally abusive woman to change and that relationships that suffer from verbal abuse just don't survive"

I don't agree^^^^^with this.

I too was verbally abusive, not always but did it several times. But I also was loving, caring, and giving more often than mean. So I don't think any human can be mean all of the time and I don't agree that one can not change. You are here, that's a change right? This Saturday I was at my club and one of the members was there with OW and his 2 little Ds. I don't know he stich but I observed him being annoyed with OW and rude. So the grass in not greener as your H may make you think. Keep those changes coming show that book and your H that they are wrong. HUGS

This evening, another backslide. I had been doing so well the last few days...

I sent him email in the afternoon asking if he could watch kids later while I went to apple store - my phone was not charging. An hour and two emails later he responded "that's fine, of course."

When he arrived and while I was getting ready to leave, he asked about the girls swimming classes - it's seriously the 4th time he asks the same questions about that. It shocks me that he won't register after detailed conversations about things.

This has been a HUGE issue for me throughout our marriage, for years now... he just does not listen to me. And I know him. When he is interested, he is all ears and very attentive. But for some years, he just doesn't care what i have to say. It's just not important to him and it makes me feel invisible, worthless, hurt and rejected. I have been angry about this for a long time.

So tonight it triggered me and I repeated the same info I had told him previously, but with a hurt tone and told him we had talked about it before, a couple of times. This was a bad thing to say. He seemed frustrated about my tone and complaint, so he was not really listening to what was making me upset.

He then proceeded to ask why i needed to go out. I asked with a hurt tone "did you even read my email?" he said "yes I did, but i just don't remember. " He could tell I was upset, but I got over it and proceeded to get ready. I thanked him for watching kids and left.

When I got back, I brought him soup from the store - he had said he didn't feel well, so I got him the one he liked. No thank you or anything.

I told him I had bad news - my phone was dead and I needed a new one, which would cost money and be a hassle, plus I lost most of the photos I have taken of our 3 month old baby... lot's of them lost forevery - I felt like he showed no empathy and said "If you need it, get it."

I also told him my credit card application was declined because my debt to income ratio was bad (he had suggested that I get my own card, since he wants us to separate our finances / spending and I am only an authorized user on our cards - all are in his name. He also showed no empathy either about that. Just said to apply at another bank and added "anything else?" He seemed eager to leave.

I told him there was one more thing I wanted to discuss - how we should let the nanny go. He said he was concerned that I would be alone with kids all day (made me feel like i would be a danger for kids or something). I ignored him and told him we didn't have a choice, since I didn't have a job and we could not afford her. He asked why not keep her part-time until she could find a job. He then asked why we were firing her - this is the third time we talk about this subject as well.

So I asked again if we would make a budget to see if we could afford that. (I have asked him a few times since he left and he always ignores my request). He played dumb and responded "I already made one." He only made a balance sheet, so I replied "I meant a balanced budget, so we can try to get our spending under control." He gave me no answer to that.

Now, please understand that he was an Econ major in college, he worked as a CPA and has always been very controlling and anal about money, spending and making sure he keeps track of all the money. He is completely paranoid about our credit history and has always been extremely stressed out about finances. So I know he doesn't want to do a budget because he doesn't want to restrict his spending with OW or have to show me exactly how much he spends. I pretty much know, since I check our checking and credit cards online every month...)

He then asked when I am going back to work. This is the fourth time he asks me this as well.
I finally snapped and asked very irritated why he asked me again, why is he pressuring me and why the hurry? I said I had explained it before, so I have to wonder why he is so eager. Is it because he told me a month ago that he is just waiting for me to go back to work to file for divorce. He didn't deny it, just said "that doesn't mean I am eager."
I interrupted and made a snide comment "LIke I said before the reason why I am not working is because our son is still not sleeping through the night, the girls are also struggling and waking up at least once at night, I am not sleeping at night and I am not going back to work until they start doing better emotionally."

He then complained I always interrupt and he just can never talk to me. I said " yes, you have made it very clear that I am not the way you want me to be."

He raised his voice and I asked him not to and told him it was not all me - we both contributed to our bad communication and that it was just not 13 years of abuse on my end. He did things too and i wished that for once he would accept having at least some part of responsibility - he changed subject and came back saying that as long as i was making snide comments, he would not even talk to me
He ended walking out of the house and going home.

I blew it again - back to zero, reset the clock and start from scratch. I don't know if i will ever succeed at this. My emotions are too strong - the way he treats me sometimes hurts sooo much and trigger me so quickly. He was so indifferent and kept asking questions about things we have talked about before, repeatedly and in detail. I feel so disrespected, hurt and rejected that I mean so little to him that he won't remember hardly any meaningful conversation with me.

It hurts because I know him - when he is interested, he gives his undivided attention. And he has admitted in the past that he just gave up and stopped caring and just zoned me out... My problem? That I still have expectations for how he treats me because some days he is so nice and friendly. And I should know better and just be ready, not expect anything and not let that trigger me.

I feel terrible. I am so weak sometimes and just hurt him so much. How can he trust me if I get angry again and again. I wouldn't. It doesn't matter why I am angry, he shuts down regardless of the reason. He just cannot get away fast enough. It validates him, his leaving and all the reasons why he feels our relationship is not fixable. And I cannot argue. I fell down again... Time to get up from the floor and try again.

I am so hopeless and sad right now. I understand clearly and rationally what I have to do and where I fail, but I keep failing. My brain gets it, but not my heart. My emotions still rule me. I hope this new therapist can help me. After 10 months, H and I STILL have the same old, crappy and unhealthy arguments and interactions and tonight was another one of them.

Wow KG, you are doing amazing in a really tough sitch. It seems like you did back slide yesterday but you are in an impossible sitch even someone that had a calm disposition would flip out. 2 things have help me control my responses to my husband when he is being a jerk (especially when he acts like this is so great that we are splitting up & everyone is going to be so happy) 1. Anti Depressants 2. Space & limited interaction. The prozac has been amazingly helping in controlling my anger, even when he told me again he was getting a divorce (still no papers) I didnt freak, that was the meds. Space & limited interaction. Ultimitely I do want to rebuild our friendship but right now it helps seeing him as little as possible and talking to him as little as possible. We have a D1 & D3 so we need to interact but right now we just see each other every other week for pick ups. This has been so powerful since now when I see him it is only for 1/2 hr max. So I pysch myself up & look my best for that small amount of time & act like things couldnt be better. There is no way I would be able to do that if I was seeing him all the time. Do you have family in the area that could help you out more? so you would have to talk to him all the time.
I have been amazed at how you have handled yourself. Having a new born & going through this crap is not easy. Your husband will be a part of your life for the rest of your life, slow down you have time.