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David,

I know where you're coming from... recently I've started becoming more convinced that my W is in a MLC and not just a WAW. For some reason it has made a small difference to me. In the end she's still being, at times, cold-hearted and malicious. Though, I may choose to go with self-centered and narcissistic as descriptors instead.

I really don't know why it makes a difference to me, but it has in some small part. Maybe it's because I've come to believe that it isn't about feelings for some OM; it's just her profound dissatisfaction with her life which includes our R.

At the same time I also get more anxious at times... if she was just a WAW then changing myself and thus our R could be enough. But if my W is truly so dissatisfied with her life and her actions are because the R is something she can directly control (she can't not have kids, she can't jettison her family as examples, but she can jettison me) then I don't know that changing me and our R will be enough. Because I have no ability to effect those things beyond me.

So it's a double-edged sword.

For the LBS the most relevant position is to remain... detached...

While the LBS might want to believe the WAS is malicious, don't forget they weren't like that when you got M... in a moment of fear and anxiety, anyone can act like a trapped bear...

Whether WAS or MLC... the LBS should remember the bad stuff directed at us... it isn't personal... and for our own integrity and honour, we need not attack the WAS or MLC and make it personal...

B/c if she's having a MLC....then you can blame it on that, instead of you taking the blame for her feeling like she does.

This is almost typical, anymore, for a LBH. So many men start their thread by telling about their WAW. Then they find out about OM. After that rocks on for a short time (and the H can't deal with things as they are), then he tries to convince himself, and others, that she's in MLC.

Yes, I agree....it makes you feel better to think she's in MLC than being "just" a WAW.

It makes me feel better, but the results and pain are still the same. I think it just makes it easier to forgive her and not be so angry.

It also makes me feel like there's hope for our marriage still. I've read about both MLC and WAW and they seem similar to me. I get the sense that a MLC changes their attitude towards life in general (kids, responsibilities, friends, etc) rather than just the H. Where the WAW is basically unhappy with her husband.

Am I wrong?

David, just wanted to let you know that I am brushing up on your sitch and that I too can relate to much: Your W acting like a total alien, turning into a nasty and brutish person, blaming you for everything and ignoring your feelings, making you feel like staying far, far away from this new entity as possible...as well as feeling miserable and lost without her, paradoxically.

I agree with Kaffe in that detachment will be your best friend right now. Good for you, and good for her too. Sorry to hear that you have to deal with kids in the mix, as it seems hard to detach when you are forced to interact with her because of them.

I also agree with Kaffe where your W's malicious behavior is concerned. I know for a fact that my W's own nasty reactions are derived from the hurt that she feels inside rather than anything that I'm doing. It's easier for her to paint you as a villain than recognize that she is hurting everyone that she loves by leaving, including you.

That depends. Most times, there is OM in the background. In all the posts I've read on DB board, there is only one couple that I remember where there was not a third parth involved.

That doesn't mean there has to be a third party in order to be classified as a WAW, but when there are small children involved....you have to ask yourself why a woman would leave the M (void of any abuse, of course) if there isn't a third party or she wants to have a third party.

The thing that bothers me about reading a LBH saying he feels better if the W is having a MLC rather than her be a WAW....is that it's not saying very much about that man, now is it? Sounds a little selfish to me. A MLC can continue for several years, and then she may not ever be quite like she used to be. OTOH, a WAW (affair or not) usually won't drag it out that long before she either walks or reconciles, one of the other.

A S in MLC can be just as cold & cruel as a WAS. So are you really saying that it would be easier to forgive if they aren't in an A? That sounds more like a fragile male ego. Come to think of it, I don't ever remember a LBW saying that she rather her H be having a MLC. Interesting.

Either way is really awful and everyone suffers. Plus, the chances of a W who is in MLC having an A, IMO, is huge.

Crud! I meant third party.

I'm not sure how that's selfish? Please explain. It's not like I want her to be in a MLC. I think it's just easier for me to understand. Are you saying it's selfish that I would prefer her being in a MLC because an affair would be too painful for me?



I'm not saying it would be easier to forgive because my S did in fact have an affair. I'll try to explain what I mean. To me I don't understand why she left. She said she was unhappy, and I know she was. I completely own up to the things that I did wrong. I don't think that what I did warrants a divorce, but that's not the point. My point is that I really just do not know what is going on her head. One week she tells me she loves me, the next she doesn't even want to talk to me. I don't understand what is going on. I'm not making excuses. I just don't know, she won't really talk to me right now. Let me reiterate, I did things wrong too. I'm not passing the buck here.

Considering that I don't understand it. To me it's not logical. It would be easier for me to accept things if I knew she "wasn't in her right mind". Now that I just typed that out I see what you are saying...."I don't understand" and "It would be easier for me"...yeah that sounds pretty selfish.

In my situation she would tell me she wasn't happy and then come back later and told me she didn't mean it and she was saying things out of anger. I hate the fact that she really meant it when she said it. The last thing I want is for her to be unhappy. As painful as it is, if she's happier without me, then she needs to be without me. I'll be straight with you, all I want to do is to love her and let her know how wonderful she really is. It's too late at this point. I should have done that before she left. The part that bugs me is that I thought I was. She told me that I was a good husband and treated her well.

In short, it just doesn't make sense. How can I work on something if I'm told that she didn't mean it? I guess the real question is, why did she always say she didn't mean it?

So, maybe it is a fragile ego. Maybe it's just a huge amount of confusion. Maybe it's both. It's something I'm going to have to evaluate and be honest with myself about it. Sandi2, your words hold a lot of weight with me. I've read your posts and you are very insightful and honest. I have a lot of respect for you, so, if you think it's me having a fragile ego, then I'm willing to be it is.

All in all, I know it doesn't have to make sense to me. In her world she's unhappy and hurt. That's reality. I wish I could march right in and take all that away. Somehow or another I seem to be the cause of it. All I know to do right now is give her space. If it doesn't have to do with the kids, then I leave her alone. The person she had an affair with (a woman, btw) dumped my S to work on her own marriage. So, I'm sure my S is hurting there. I do have to say though, that it is hard for me to understand how I'm the "evil husband" when she has an affair with another woman. To me, that tells me that she is confused...about a lot of stuff. She's on match.com...looking for men. I know she's been battling with depression and anxiety for years now. Again, I had my faults, but I think that there are more issues at hand than just me. If she had an affair with a man, I could understand more....but a woman?

The thing I think I need to remember is that she's not something I can fix. I can hope and pray that things will work out between us...but that is not up to me. I've got to focus on working on me (not for her, but for ME). All I can do is change myself and hope for the best.

Unless I'm missing something...

David... one idea to think about, and it goes to your assertion that somehow you are the cause of her unhappiness and pain. Consider this quote:

Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. - Miguel Ruiz

I know I originally was where you are... I was the cause of my W's unhappiness. That's not true. My W's unhappiness is HER unhappiness. She has made choices on how to react and deal with our R, and those choices have brought her unhappiness.

This isn't to say that there aren't things I can do to change myself and by extension change our R. By changing our R, through changing myself, it may change how she interacts with our R and thus ameliorate her unhappiness. But maybe it won't... maybe she'll still choose to react in ways that make her unhappy.

I have friends who are deployed in combat zones overseas. Some of them are unhappy and some of them are happy. But each of them is responsible for their own happiness.

At this point our W's have decided, or are thinking at least, that in order to take charge of their happiness they need to leave our R. The goal is to make ourselves better. Then when our W's decide to re-evaluate life they may think that the path to happiness lies within the R instead of out of it.

Yes WHG, although may I interject... while the LBS is not the cause of the WAS's unhappiness, as Miguel says... What they say and do is a projection of their own reality...

Just remember that while the LBS isn't the cause... there is a reality to how the WAS sees things...

We often say, if it stings... we should look at it... IOW, if the WAS says the LBS was never around... take a good hard look... could you have done better...? And then make a point of doing better in that area, if there is validity...

That may not change the status of the M, but it helps the LBS become better all around and that's always a good thing and a goal...