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Hi kk!

That's weird only Pam's post was here when I replied, good thing I scrolled down for some reason after posting!

I chickened out of posting on your new thread as it just looked too overwhelming for me! I kept thinking HOW will you ever meet all of those goals?

On the other hand, I KNOW that if I don't make a real effort, things like a vacation, or doing more art work, etc. tend NOT to "just happen" ...

Shiny

hey no problem shiny, sometimes i stay off of your thread simply because i feel like i am not worthy

*stick in emoticon of smiley bowing down to another smiley*

hey, i am gonna give it my best shot ya know?

kitti

NOt Worthy??

Is that a nice way of saying my thread's too boring to post to? JK!!!

I know what you mean, I read a few threads like that (Ellie's for some reason) ...I just never thought of MINE that way!

Shiny

oh shiny, you are the ultimate db'r - what can a noob like me have to offer you, all i can do is GLEAN from your posts and sit in my corner and say

geesh, i wish i was in shiny's shoes

kitti

I am laughing OUT LOUD, kk...only because I KNOW where I was a year ago!!!

Don't get me wrong, I am SOOO grateful for how things have gone for CJ and I...but a year ago I was a self-professed "newbie" who often prefaced posts by saying...now you should have a real dber's opinion but here's my thought....

Heck I was around when SAGE was a newbie...but then she was always the wise one!

Shiny

Hey Shiny,

Aside from wishing your cramps pass quickly I will try to give some thought to your question and give you some answers. Yes, it was maybe July when I forgave myself. I believe it was before David moved out of the house, but I am not positive.

But what kept it alive was with the problem of not being able to reconcile my actions with my image of myself, the guilt was always there and if I was guilty and this horrible person I didn't deserve to be happy.

So when my horse died and my dog a month later, Lucy with feet problems that are life affecting, Patty possibly having to be put down. These were all things that I deserved to have happen because of the horrible person I was and of course I didn't DESERVE to be happy.

I believe strongly that my guilt contributed to my depression and to my eventual neurotic care and concern of the animals health. They kept dying to punish me for my sins.

This is not a pretty picture and this is what David dealt with on a daily basis.

This makes a lot of sense to me Pam...of course it is a killer way to live! With this sense of continual penance to be paid.

I may well refer to your journey if and when this topic comes up with CJ...I wonder if he feels that these jobs he's applying for and are slipping away are "payback" of some sort.

Thank you, keep the insights coming, at your own pace and timing of course!...How DID you let it go?

Shiny

I am afraid a big part of that answer won't help you with CJ.

I have paid the full price. Retribution has been served.

I can never make it up, but I can now FULLY understand what I did.

And it happened for me when I read Gary Chapman's book The other side of Love. But that might not help CJ if the very Christian base of the book would bother him.

Plus it was a part of my building of and finding of myself. With my reading here and R books I can see what happened to my first marriage. It may NOT have been salvagable, but I sure can see where we went wrong and neither of us knew any better. I was 18, young and foolish.

I think Michell's books should be a part of pre-marriage counseling. You should have some idea of what you are getting into and how to make it grow and thrive. When you are newly wed you think love will take care of all of that by itself.

I think I'm rambling tonight.

Maybe CJ can come to see how his not forgiving himself actually hurts you as well as himself and your present time together.

He at least already has read a lot on relationships and he knows you have come a long ways towards forgiving him.

I bought David a book, no idea how he liked it called, The Forgiving Marriage. It seemed pretty good what I read of it. Dealt a lot with forgiveness.

Hey Shiny,

My feelings are hurt! JK

You posted all over the place and nothing to me. You think I'm doing so well I have no more need of your shinning assistance, right???????

As David would say, "I kill me" Hope you saw Alf!

Pammy Pam! You and I riffed all early evening on MY thread for a change!

That book just might be good, CJ has a foundation in Christianity.

I haate to harp on you, but it doesn't seem so much that you've FORGIVEN yourself, as it does you feel that the ultimate penance has been paid ....you GOT what you GAVE to your first H. What, Pam..were all the other tragedies you endured just the warm up?

I don't think the world needs to work that way, hon. You didn't DESERVE to have David cheat on you and all of this other crap...NO WAY~! I do NOT buy that.

I would HATE for CJ to feel that the only way he can be "absolved" is for me, or someone else, to do the same to him.

Ah, but I'm getting ahead of myself...you mentioned some books that are intriguing, and will probably give me some insights into this painful journey. Again, Thank you!

Shiny