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Maryr,
So sorry you are here. I wish you weren't. I wish I wasn't. I saw 67 people viewing our forum today. Just so sad.

If the Bomb was dropped in June, you still a newby. Not eating, sleeping, feel like you are dying. All normal stuff honey. It doesn't go away overnight. He!!, I still don't sleep well after almost 6 months. But it does fade.

That's why GALing is SOOO important. You may not want to do, but force yourself to do it. At first I used to GAL to just stop that "dying" feeling. It was hard at first caz I wished w was with me.. but it got easier.

Treat yourself too. First thing I did was get a new haircut. Then as I continued to lose weight (only great part about this thing) I bought new clothes. Then I dyed my hair blonde.. see where I'm going with this.

If your w is not going to respect your feelings, get yourself out of the house. Who wants to be watching 2 hrs of TV anyway? Shake it up a bit. GAL. Don't tell her where you are going. Take your S or go alone. No need to be cold about it, but you have things to do, places to be, people to hang out with. Have the mindset "Who cares what she's doing, you're awesome and people want to hangout with you!"

IMO - accepting the fact that w has an OW/PA/EA is extremely difficult. It brings up so many emotions. But if your goal is to get w back.. you need to stop fueling all fires that makes her run to OW and brings her back to you.

It may not seem like it, but you have an opportunity to take care of YOU. To find yourself, work on yourself, rediscover what makes you happy, try to change what makes you sad.

Even if you don't save m, you will save yourself. It may not be exactly what you want now, but it won't be a bad deal in the end.

(( ))

Wise words, Valeska... I'm still working on all that myself. :S It's so hard... but it can be done. The only way out of pain is through it.

maryr--

sorry for this long LONG post but you got me started when I read your thread...so many things you said struck a chord in me and reminded me of a dark time...

SO listen to Val and the advice you get here. IT's priceless.

okay so you're a professor and you "get" the idea of doing what may seem counterintuitive but DO IT anyhow...read the DB books and if you can, hire a DB coach (I loved my mc but DBing was very specific advice with details and alternatve plans in case this or that happened.)

For ME, my coach was a Godsend but not all are equal I guess. Point is, I began seeing things in a new way.

And I intellectually accepted and then emotionally accepted, that I had to do this seemingly counterintutive behavior b/c what I had been doing had NOT worked...

I strongly believe that "Where the head goes, the heart will follow, (eventually)." So do the cognitive work and get your head and then your heart in a better place. Read and read and get that c appointment and TAKE YOUR FOCUS OFF OF HER...it's soo not helping you OR the R.

Your SO (can we say "w" and not get confused?) Okay so, she's infatuated with OW, and what's new? (Do these situations ever get original??)

Most affairs last an average of 6 months and most don't end up in marriage. Of the ones that do, 80% end in divorce so their odds are worse than the average 1/2.

THere is some painful waiting it out if you choose to look at it that way.

But instead of "waiting it out" choose to GAL..and I mean that.

Stop the "I'm shy" excuse and push yourself out there.

Get out of your comfort zone bc guess what, it's NOT so comfortable is it?

Join a club or organization, even if the first thing is a divorce support group-get out there and know that it does NOT mean you are giving up if you join a div support group.

You are Just getting support. Do not tell your w about this.

Be a bit mysterious. Go out.

Also be the best parent you can be for your son. (He must be freaking out.)

But no mother is unmoved by the loving interaction of their child with the other parent. As a mom, it's a turn on to me to see our kids playing with h or interacting with him. Your w will enjoy seeing your intelligence and love with your son and you two playing together, etc. WHo is the more nurturing of you two? Who does what with him and who works and earns more?

Regardless, Spend more time with him!!! Get as close to him now as you can b/c if she's leaving or just isn't as present for him as usual, he'll feel it and he'll be damaged. Don't make him feel like an orphan. Be there for him, despite your pain...I know it's hard but it's actually easier to hang with him and love HIM b/c he needs it and he returns it and it is your job.

Did you guys adopt him or did one of you give birth? I ask b/c if she had him, I worry she may get custody...not to freak you out more than you already are.

Back to some DB basics...

What are your 180s now?
What are you doing to GAL?

Yes at first GAL is just doing whatever, to get out of the hell that your homelife is...

And pay no attention to the texting or FBing..God she sounds like she's 13 y/o. ( I'd give that less than 6 months...) I mean as far as your reaction to it, have none. Get out. Leave.

Now for the financial/Practical things...how are you financially set up? IF she splits, will you be okay?

How did you guys fight when you had conflict? Did you attack/escalate and retreat, or work things out somewhat evenly, or did one give in more often, etc??

Bottom line is for you to win her back she will have to believe
[b]
that marriage to you today and from this day forward

will be better/different than before.[/b]

But you cannot argue this to her. You cannot have expectations of her at this time or in the near future.

YOU have to change...(yes, we know she does too. But you are here; she's not).

So We won't focus on what SHE needs to do or ought to work on and all that...she's not here, you are and she isn't within our control OR yours..only you are. Remember when you want to look at her flaws, focus on your own work and your work only. Focussing on her flaws only helps if she leaves for good and you want to feel better about losing someone "with so many flaws!"

With the painful growth you are about to experience, You will simply have to become a better person for this and losing you will be a real loss for her (and someone else's gain.)

When you truly believe this, it will emanate from you and that will do more for your R than you can know...

So the change begins with you and you are the only one you have control over. Try to see this as empowering.

Furthermore, by seeing your part in this, and how much you contributed to the problems the bad news is that you feel badly about it but the good news is that you are able to make course corrections.

IOW, if your mc said "Oh, Maryr you are great and have been the perfect spouse...it's all HER..."

then you'd be powerless to change things. See how learning that You played a role is actually empowering?
Trust me, it is empowering.

Do what you can to make yourself the best woman you can be and leave the results up to God. Be a woman only a fool would leave.

Who does she look like? What were you like when you first met?

LEARN about detachment...and Once you begin to detach, you'll begin to see and embrace the upsides of her being gone--I KNOW THIS IS FAR OFF FROM NOW...I'm just saying that when my h left one thing I had to admit is that there was less tension in the home, thank God.

then I rented chick flicks and didn't worry about the toilet seat being left up...and that was a small upside and eventually, I began to see that I finally could move and live anywhere I wanted, not always putting h's career first. This was a big upside. It was very liberating. I began to look at jobs overseas for one year assignments and the girls (son was at college) were up for it.

I never mentioned it to h til he saw the application and asked. I said "if you are leaving anyhow, I thought about where WE wanted to live and saw this job so..." and he said nothing but it bugged him...a lot.

I got mysterious and did not answer his calls much. maybe 1/4 b/c he usually called to babble and make himself feel good or give me tasks to do with the house or bills, (as if I wanted a "TO DO" list from him)...or to talk to the kids and they hated it b/c he called at HIS convenience, not theirs...
--he was very selfish and self centered.

Mary,
I don't want to disagree with the DB coach b/c IDK what she heard and said. But for me, if my h was into texting someone else or messaging and they were in an A,

I'd probably leave the house, with or without son (depends on time of night and who puts him to sleep--) if I brought him -- but I'd be out of the area...and get the hell out.

No way would I stay in the area knowing she was "with" OW b/c it's not merely disrespectful (but respect IS an ingredient in love and healthy r's) but it's unhealthy and almost deliberately cruel.

I'm tempted to say she's very angry at you or maybe just utterly clueless. But yeah, now that I think of it, it is cruel to do that.

No one likes to think they're being mean. They justify it, much like they justify their choice to have a relationship with OPs. But this is too much really. Where is son when all this is going on? In bed?

You cannot "convince" her she is wrong. Nor do you need to b/c the more you challenge her choices, the more she'll defend those choices and that only cements them.

Don't fuel the negative images she is using to justfy this either. Contrast your behavior with her negatives...Whatever negatives she's using (e.g., you are too controlling) have to be undermined by your new 'Data"...meaning you are a changed woman.

Once you remove those negatives, her jusitifications will be weakened.

You cannot point out your changes or they'll look like tactics though. Just BE the changes.

Expect some lashing out if you engage in debate about this. So Don't engage.

Be there for your son, make at least one new friend (have lunch with a colleague, join a church group, audition -if you sing or act or play an instrument....work crew on a show, Go to the gym, there are things on campus I'm sure. What does your w do for a living?

I know you teach and I'm a L. But I pushed myself hard just to feel "ok' and not like crap. I auditioned for every play that let me, joined a writers group, and began doing stand up comedy and even took a pottery class (I'm not into crafts but what the heck? I met a cool woman who became a really good friend) and I worked out joined 2 clubs, volunteered at a woman's shelter, did parent group things-PTA too,
you get the idea. So yeah, you can't say "Oh, I'm shy"...to your w that may sound a lot like saying "do the work for us to have a social life b/c I don't want to...it's hard FOR ME..." as if it's a breeze for everyone else. Putting ourselves out there is putting ourselves out there...takes effort.

But I had kids who were watching me to see what you are supposed to do in the face of heartbreak and betrayal. I had to model that for them.

So yes I felt deep wounding pain but I did know it was not eternal and I did know it was not fatal. I knew That someday I'd be alright...even happy.

When I embraced the good sides of h being gone and started making plans for being on my own with the kids, I came to realize h was losing way more than I was...and I think I radiated that. I realistically assessed how things were going to be and came to believe I'd downsize with the girls and I'd be okay. H would be on his own wherever...w/whomever...not my problem. I had to focus on MY life and comforting the girls.

I also changed My ways. I didn't respond with anger or whiny criticism and nagging (which had never worked anyhow-you'd think I'd have figured this out earlier but no, not ME...I was too busy being "right" and thinking H did not "Deserve a warm welcome home" when he had worked late...like it never occurred to me that being warm and loving might have given h a reason to come home, whether he was "right' or not....)

this isn't about being right. It's about being happy.

I became calmer and my db coach told me to read the Five Love Languages which I did. Sort of knew some of it but it reminded me that h's love language is physical affection and words of affirmation. So my db coach told me to:

"Applaud loudly for the 1% of positives h does" which was damn hard at times...(like Mother Teresa hard).

"Lose the Anger, at least in front of w. Don't fuel the negatives she's coming up with to justify."

"GAL" and I mean be specific. Join something or sign up for something or DO something new or that you have not done in years...this week.

Don't judge her behavior right now about how wrong she is and how rude, etc. You have seen it, it's there and we know that she's capable of this. but my guess is she's clueless. She's "in love" with ow and justified leaving you so that's how this works.

some good news--
She hasn't left.

She hasn't suggested dividing assets or seeing a lawyer has she?

Don't ask her to! Do Not give an ultimatum anytime soon unless your alternative is self destructive. Fact is that most ultimatums around here backfire. IF there comes a time when you are SURE you could handle her leaving and you just have to get out of limbo, then fine, give her one.

But if it's to manipulate her b/c you think she'll cave, I can almost guarantee you that it will backfire on you and she'll bolt. Frankly I probably would leave someone who gave me an ultimatum if I felt he had pushed me into the arms of OM and now was giving ME an ultimatum??!!!

But all this still being at home, may mean a part of her is NOT totally on board wth leaving this r for a new OW.

So maybe you have some time. But I'd make myself scarce if I could. Let the new R fizzle out some. That means it'll first go UP before going down...but it will peter out.

Get some space for YOU and give her time to see your changes. Those changes are easier to make when you have a little time apart. Do you see why? Harder to notice someone's changes if they are around you all the time.

I'm not suggesting a sep but saying some time apart will lessen her feelings of being trapped and pursued which is what you are making her feel.

Back off. Stop staring at her or knowing what she's doing 24/7. No snooping. There's an OW. You know it. No need to snoop at all...at all...


Let the little voice in her head be heard (don't drown it out with your pleas and arguments) b/c you want her to ask herself what the heck SHe is doing with s4 around and you there, and all that you two built together being tossed for some new chick she's known how long??

Read those 37 rules over & over...this can be saved.

But you can't see that now due to your pain clouding everything. Her vision is impaired too, neither of you is seeing straight.

Decide/finalize nothing. IF she approaches you about separating and splitting up, delay it by saying you need time to process all this but do NOT RESIST it...don't fight her.

If she agrees to MC, fine so be it.

But I'd start DBing asap and showing those changes NOW so she can know that maybe she can get her needs met and filled by you (not all. No one fills ALL our needs and we cannot fill ALL of someone else's)...

but she thinks she needs this OW for some reason and down deep you know some of those reasons and that there was some validity.

Change those reasons but don't own ALL the problems in the R...not realistic and not healthy.

But sure, change what needs changing for YOU and GAL...

Detach and we'll see where it goes from there.

Good luck and hang in there

It does get better regardless of outcome with her. But no, I don't believe she's ready to leave the whole R.

Give her space and ask nothing and read those rules again. And again.

Holy cow, 25. That was gold. I'm going to read that over and over again.

Checking in on you, Maryr... how are you doing?

Hey, Lucky =

still hangin in there.... barely sometimes, but still hangin in. Hope you and i will be able one day to look back in wonder at the rough period we had with our spouses. And hopefully they will be home then... I appreciate your thinking of me.

25years -- OMG what an AWESOME post. I read it and read it and read it. You are the absolute leader in patience. I take SO much heart from your story and always always read and try to follow your insight and advice. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply in such depth to me.

mary

Glad you had the fortitude to read it thru! So, what are you doing to create some good memories with s4?

And can you figure out which GAL thing you'll do first? Can you be self centered for the next few weeks or see it as the "personal growth individual workshop of 1" and really work on YOU?

All the things you thought about doing but held back from. I went skydiving for my birthday, always wanted to, but felt irresponsible as a parent. So I Read about it and the reality of in tandem jumping, made it almost too safe to be exciting!

But it was plenty exciting, OMG trust me, jumping out at 12k feet, and letting yourself go and trusting...a real life lesson in there.

The jump was crazy and I didn't know which way was up, then The chute opened and I got a GOOD LOOK at things from a whole new fresh perspective.

Loved it. Did it again w/s25, and will again!

But you can do something a tad less dramatic if you want. Learn another language, whatever.

All up to you.

Embrace or Resist what is. Those are your choices.

When you come to believe you really are a good catch, (convince yourself of it and I DO think "fake it til you make it" works to an extent so give it a real try)

but when YOU believe it, it just shines through. Believe that if your w leaves you for someone she barely knows and has to text nonstop....soooo adolescent it reeks,

then so be it.

You can't make her get it. She has to be released to her "task" to figure this out. You cannot convince someone to stay, with words...

Be the changes you want to be, without highlighting them for her.

Be the best Maryr you can be and realize, that really is ALL you can do.

If you are a believer, then leave the results up to God.

If not, then just KNOW you did what you could with the information & tools you had at the time.

Soon you'll have more tools, you'll have made the course corrections you

needed to make, AND in time (the gift!)

the future will start to look pretty darn bright.

((( )))

FROM 25YEARS---"No way would I stay in the area knowing she was "with" OW b/c it's not merely disrespectful (but respect IS an ingredient in love and healthy r's) but it's unhealthy and almost deliberately cruel.

I'm tempted to say she's very angry at you or maybe just utterly clueless. But yeah, now that I think of it, it is cruel to do that"

It's that time of night. She's texting....and I'm dying inside. 25Years, I agree. She's angry at me. The disappointments I have given her over the years....the controlling, the not 'hearing', the trying too hard, the various and sundry other things from over a decade. I understand, but still she has got to know how badly this rips my heart out. Surely I don't deserve all this???


(i know the answer, I'm just doing a pity party as she sits there and smiles and giggles at these texts.......i can only IMAGINE..........Yes, 25Years -- she is 35 years old and acting like a teenager. The OW is 42 - which is even worse.

One good thing (i think?) is that she won't really admit what's up to me... that seems to indicate she's not ready to go wholly into this other R. Her mom also doesn't know....I'll post more about that later. I took something so I can sleep tonight.

I plan to GAL tomorrow by taking S4 to see the Smurfs. My DB coach suggested I try to crowd the OW out by planning more family time and inviting my wayward W. Making more family memories (25 you alluded to this also :)) Tomorrow I plan to invite her to go wiht us, but not make any difference in my plan whether she does or not. **I just want to keep her away from OW!** but at the same time, make good memories for my boy regardless. He's my light!!!!

Got to go to bed. This texting has me torn apart, and I simply cannot sit and watch this any more. As I always say, I'm not superwoman.

I was doing better - we had a nice time yesterday. Went out to eat. Fun. Laughter and smiles. I was light and easy. We go out together the two of us once a week. But I keep backsliding. OMG. I made plans for us to take S4 to see Smurfs. She said, sure and seemed to want to go. Well, this am she's up and headed to OW's house to 'plant flowers' WTF??

She won't even water the flowers in our backyard. Here I go being devastated again. I know, 25Years, I know..... don't worry so much about what she's doing....but ..... i told her I am not thrilled with her heading over there. I said, you know, I can give you love, time and space, and know that no matter what I am here and I love you. Was that a blow it??? I don't know. She's showering now to leave....then will meet S4 and I later at the movies. I don't want to see her after knowing what she's likely been doing all afternoon.

It's been 1 week to the day that i found out they at least kissed......Why on earth do we let them control our emotions? After talking with her mom on friday (i still need to post about that - really good talk) I was more positve. Feeling like my W will come back and try again to save our family.... her mom said when she was young that was what happened with her and W's dad. They both had affairs, but decided to stay togetehr and work hard to make the family work. They will have been married 40 years this month. That is the family my W comes from.

Maybe she will get this out of her system. This texting is bad enough but going over there to 'plant flowers' -- i'm literally going to throw up now. No matter what I do, I can't stop this pain right now.

I shoudn't have asked if she had plans. One good thing I guess is she tells me but without telling the whole thing. What does that mean? I'm rambling b/c I'm freaking. Sorry!!! It happens to us all i guess....

Ok, now i want to answer some of your questions 25years from the long post.

As much as i keep backsliding and talking too much, I'm doing better on dbing in some small ways, and small victories are better than none.

Ok, S4 is adopted, but to make it more complicated we r in a state where i have no real legal rights. W is going through a bad period now but she would not separate S and me. She's not a bad person, she's not they type. She says she wants what is best for him ultimately.

financially i make more. She is a mental health therapist (go figure... :o) so her pay is not much. Financially, I know its easier for her to stay at home.

What are my 180s's? I talked to my MIL friday for the first time really in all these years - I'm being more assertive in other words in many ways. I'm trying to talk less and listen more. I have gone out a couple of times with and actually made a couple of new friends.

How to detach from this person I've loved so long with all my heart but apparently didn't do enough//????? Oh I'm having an obsessive day now that I knwo she's going out to see OW. Make my mind a blank. Be happy. Don't let her know it's killing me.