Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Longtime lurker, first time poster...

I've been lurking on this site since my H dropped the first bomb on me on May 1st of this year, and before I go any further I must say that the advice, help and sense of community I have felt, even as an "outsider", has proven invaluable to me during this very difficult time in my life. You guys are all very, very wise. Even as a reader, it helps learning from each of you. Now, on to the details...

H and I have been married for 13 years, together 15, and we have two children (D8 and S5). As I mentioned, on May 1st, my husband told me he "wasn't sure we were right for each other anymore", said he thought we were basically incompatible, that we "used to be good together but now we're not" and on and on and on. You guys know the dril. It was the basic crap. He wasn't sure how he felt about me anymore, he didn't know what to do, etc. He asked me to go to MC but right from the beginning, I could tell he was already pretty set in his decision. I got the feeling, right from the start, that he'd already made up his mind to leave us and was just doing his due diligence before making any rash decisions. He's a very methodical person and not at all prone to rash judgement, so for him to state quite clearly that he didn't know if we should be married anymore was VERY out of character and I knew...it was going to be bad,

We spent all of May and June going to MC, and again, from the first, he was "there but not there". He was totally negative, always complaining about everything I've done wrong, not really willing to work on things, and was bascially just saying he "didn't know". It was terrible. All throughout this time period, I was a complete nut case. I am a fixer, a planner, and a go-get'em type of gal, so I did what I always do when faced with tough situations...I got up and WENT. I read books, I called our priest, I signed up with a DB coach (best thing I've done!!), I bought a ream of self-help books, and I basically tried to man-handle the situation. Did everything wrong, of course...tried to control the situation, tried to talk him out of it. Tried, tried, tried. But we just simply got nowhere. We had one really bad MC session where he told the counselor he "had some hope but was basically hopeless", after which we wound up in the car arguing for the next 2 hours. It was all the usual horror show stuff -- he was "sorry", he didn't love me anymore, he wasn't "walking out on his family, he was walking out on me", and other painful, horrible stuff. Still never said he wanted to separate, but the writing was on the wall. So, I did what I felt I had to do...I asked him to move out. He was just so unyielding, I felt I had no other options. All along, of couse, the subject of another woman was denied countles times by him. I asked again and again, as did all of his friends. But nope, he swore this was just about us.

I'm sure you can guess what happened next. He sat me down in mid-July and told me he WAS seeing someone else, and it is his high-school girlfriend! As you can imagine, I was devastated. Crushed. Totally fell apart. But in a weird way, at least it all made sense. The worst part was, of course, that he said he had "feelings" for her and wasn't going to end the relationship.

Since that time, we've been separated "with no agenda", as we are calling it. He's since broken contact with the OW, but hasn't decided to officially commit to our marriage. In the meantime, I continue to try to DB, but I am constantly falling short. I have MAJOR hurdles to get over in terms of the way we communicate (I could write reams about this, but I'll spare you that for now) and it's just agony right now. We are in contact very frequently bc of the kids, and also because he seems to want to keep talking to me, which my coach Joanne has encouraged me to continue. So, we talk and text daily. But I continue to do and say all the wrong stuff, and I'm starting to get frustrated with my inability to pull myself together. Time is of the essence here, folks...if I don't get my act together and start really, really changing some of my interatctions with him, we're going to be separated permanently and I'm going to find myself a divorced mommy of 2. From a man I love with all my heart.

He's living in a temporary apartment for now...hasn't moved anything but a suitcase of clothes, and we are trying to keep the whole thing low-key for now. We told the kids we are "taking a time out to stop fighting". He is here often for dinner, and we've even gone on a date together which went surprisingly well.

BUT, it's just that we're not getting anywhere. He's still not sure if he loves me. Stlll not sure I can change. Still not sure he believes I can forgive him for the affair and not throw it back in his face if we reconcile. Still not sure how he feels about OW, even though he's not currently talking/seeing her. It's just that we're...stuck. And my behavior, which could be a catalyst for positive change, is not improving, or is only improving in small doses.

So, I need help, fellow DB'ers. I need guidance. I need 2x4's. I need people to help me shut my mouth, be a good listener, and validate. I need, well, you guys know what I need.

I appreciate you all reading about my situation. Sorry it's long, and I'm sure I've left out a ton of detail. But I sure could use whatever advice folks here might have, so chime in, please, if and when you get a chance.

Many thanks!

Me - 40
H -41
D - 8
S - 5
Bomb #1 - 5/2011
Affair revealed - 7/11
Separated - 7/11

Sorry you are here redskinGG. I am certainly no expert, but no one else has posted to help you out yet, and our sitch's are so similar, I thought I should write to you.

So many of the things your H said to you and then your reactions mirror my own life. Our personalities even sound the same. I was out of my mind for several months and forcefully told my H to move out on several occasions (how stupid is that?) Fortunately, he didn't have the money and now I have my ____ together.

I took a long time for me to figure out the DB thing. I thought I knew what I was doing but I just couldn't make myself shut my mouth, be a listener, and validate his feelings. I simply could not do it and it just made me crazier and crazier.

My advice would be, set 1 week goals for yourself. On the first week choose the easiest thing (maybe shutting your mouth). Just avoid all R and D talk for the entire week. Do whatever you have to do to avoid it. Reward yourself each day for successes. If you fail one day, don't punish yourself. Instead accept it, figure out where you went wrong, and vow to do better the next day.

The next week, add the next easiest thing on the list (either listen and/or validate). When you are just learning how to do each of these things, do it in small increments. Limit your time to 10-15 min. It is very hard not to slip into old ways during long conversations while you are still learning. (I can still only make it about a half hour before I open my mouth and say something stupid).

This stuff takes A LOT of practice because it is not a natural behavior for most of us. Just keep at it and it DOES get easier.

Additionally, journaling really helps you get stuff off of your mind and is theraputic. Plus it helps you analyze your behaviors and keeps better track of successes and downfalls. Keep posting and hang in there.

Also, I found that I never really accepted DBing fully until I saw that first little reward, my H actually pursued me in some VERY small way. but it was just enough for me to feel hopeful that he did still love me even if he didn't know it.

If you give yourself a timeline and set small goals, then reward yourself for your hard work, you will feel better... and then miraculously, you may see a tiny step from your H in the right direction (sometimes you really have to be looking hard). Once you see this, it is just like a switch gets turned on and everything falls into place, DBing becomes much easier, clearer, natural, rewarding.

Hi there,

First and foremost, I hope you realize that the issues in your M are not all your fault. You play a part in it, but so does he.

Soccermom gave you good advice regarding setting goals for yourself.
Be as specific as possible with them so you will know what it will feel like when you reach them.

Personally, I am very pro counseling. Both individual as well as joint. Are you going to C for yourself? If not, I suggest that you do. I think it's great that you spoke with a DB coach, that is an excellent start.

It's going to be a rollercoaster of emotions, but the good news is you are not alone. This community is amazing when it comes to offering advice and support, and we'll be here for you every step of the way.

RSGG,

How are you sure he's not still in contact with OW? What sort of transparency plan have the two of you set up, if any? The recivism rate for infidelity is very high if precautions (no-contact letter, transparency, marriage counseling, etc.) aren't put in place.

He sounds like he's still fogged out to me; are you sure he's not still in contact with her?

And what is it about you that he wants to "change," and do you feel it is a legitimate gripe, or just gaslighting?


Starsky

soccerwife - you are right, and that is exactly what I seem to be struggling with, ironically. I know I need to make and stick to ONE SMALL STEP in my DB journey, and build on each very small success, one on top of the other. I know I will gain confidence by doing so, and will feel better all around. I know this, and yet...I can't seem to do it. I set goals, only to open my big mouth and fall right back into my old patterns of relating with my H, time and time again. I have followed your journey from the beginning and have been very impressed with how hard you are working, and how diligently you have been sticking with your goals. I'm trying to use you and others as a model. I just cannot seem to stop myself from falling into the same ole, same ole routine when commuincating with H. Even with a plan. Even when armed with tactics. Even after having read DR at least 5 times. Even after promising myself not to get drawn in to a battle. I'm just so disappointed in myself.

DG, yes, I am pro-counseling as well and have luckily found someone very helpful with whom I'm working currently. In addition, we have a very wise old priest with whom I have a terrific relationship with, and he has been helping me as well. Not so much "advising me" as just listening to me, asking questions, and helping me see where I sometimes go "astray" in my dealings with my H. H also spoke with him for 3 hours this week, so that was a small, positive sign.

Starsky, the affair thing is for sure a problem. H has said he has cut off all contact with the OW..."for now". THAT right there is the hanging chad of the sentence -- the "for now" part. What he has said is that he recognizes he cannot figure out his feelings for me while seeing this other person, so he has broken contact with her while he sees "if his feelings for me come back". I have trouble even typing that sentence, as I know how ridiculous it sounds. And it probably makes me look ridiculous for even semi-agreeing to it. But, this is where we are at this point.

I know for sure and for certain that part of my struggle is that H is not committing to the marriage at this point. We are separated while he tries to figure out IF he wants to commit, and has said that at that point (if we get there), he will be willing to go back to MC and he will be "all in", in his words. He is hesitating because he doesn't want to come back and have it not work out (duh!), which is just another excuse. He is clearly struggling right now, and is back and forth, back and froth. But until he decides (or I pull the plug, I suppose, which I'm not inclined to do at this point), we are just sort of drifting.

I am in the position of having to trust that he has broken contact with this OW. And I'm also in the position of feeling like every single thing I say or do is being evaluated, weighed, and measured against this other person in some form or fashion. He, of course, says that is not true -- he's not comparing me to her, he's just trying to figure out OUR stuff -- but I am not convinced.

And that is part of the problem. We are not dealing with the infidelity directly, although he has said he's sorry, has apologized to our families, and has even sent emails to my friends asking them to forgive him. But I don't trust that he isn't going to go back to her at some point. And since he isn't totally committing to me, I feel sad, scared, alone, and angry...and wind up sharing these feelings with him even though I KNOW that is the last thing I should be doing. And so, round and round and round we go. Talking. Getting angry. Fighting. And getting nowhere.

So, now it's down to brass tacks. I need to learn to handle our separation more effectively. I am GAL and actually do have quite a full life (friends, kids, exercise, church activities, and of course my Redskins obsession which I won't go into right now, but suffice it to say that now that football season is back, I am a much happier gal!) And I'm working hard on my issues (which include not being a good listener, getting too emotional and saying things in anger I later regret, etc.) And I've been making some VERY small improvements in those areas, which he has noticed. But he seems to think my changes are not going to last, and said as much last night. Doesn't believe I can change for the long haul, thinks I'm only changing to "win him back", etc. Which makes me mad, because I actually know I need to improve in these areas and need to make these changes regardless, so to have him dismiss them as only being about him, well...I took offense to that, for sure.

In any event, I am at a crossroads now. I need to find my center. Dig deep. Stay focused. Stick to my goals. I guess I just ask for guidance and support as I try again ...

Me - 40
H - 41
D - 8
S - 5
Bomb #1 - May, 2011
Affair revealed - 7/11
Separated - 7/11

Just by the way you write this, I can tell you have it in you.

Give one of your personal behavior goals another try. If a week is too long, try it for three days. After you make it three days, add two more days. It may take a couple tries, but you can do it.

When I first started, I was lucky to make it three days (I was all or nothing in the beginning and my head was spinning trying to make all of the changes at once and in some respects, I am sure it made me look insane to my H).

One last piece of advice, and this was given to me on a number of occasions until it sunk in. You can't make him decide if he is willing to work on M or not. He has to do this on his own time. But you can influence his decision by being the best you possible, the woman he fell in love with. If you are that woman, then the OW doesn't stand a chance... right? There simply won't be any comparison.

soccerwife, thank you for the reply, and please hang in there. You are doing great - I know it is so, so hard, this journey we are on.

Unfortunately, yesterday I found out the hard way H isn’t really interested in recommitting to our marriage, at least right now. After saying he broke contact with OW, he essentially told me yesterday he planned to resume it.

This is how it unfolded: He didn’t answer his phone when I called him about something yesterday, which is VERY unlike him. I kept calling because I just had this feeling something was wrong. He finally answered, and I asked him if he was with HER, and he said, “No, but I have to tell you I do plan to call her today”. Needless to say, I freaked. Started wailing and crying on the phone, begging him not to do it. But he was cold as ice. Said, “sorry”, and hung up on me. Sent me a text later saying he’d “discuss things when I was calm”, etc. and since then, I have been an absolute wreck. Met with a lawyer today, been crying and feeling really bereft. Don’t know what to do. I know that I violated all DB practices, but I just couldn't get a grip.

He is simply not the man I married nearly 14 years ago. He is cold, heartless, seemingly indifferent to my suffering. Seems intent on blaming our marriage problems on me. Says he hasn’t been happy for a long time and this affair has nothing to do with how he feels or doesn’t feel about me.

WHAT CAN I DO??? WHAT SHOULD I DO?? I am truly lost. Despondent. Lawyer today thinks I should file immediately. But I’m not sure. Is there any hope left?? He did speak with our priest last week for 3 hours on the phone and when I called the priest last night, he seemed truly shocked that things had changed so drastically so quickly.

We did speak for a while this evening and he was more contrite. Said he wants to take things slowly, try to be "friends" for now. But how can I be friends when he is seeing someone else?

Seriously, I'm totally confused right now. Thank goodness my DB coaching session with Joanne is this Wednesday. Any other advice would be appreciated.

OMG, I feel so badly for you. I understand how difficult it is to stick to DB when you suffer yet another wound.

Keep posting here to let it out any way possible. it is going to be seriously rough until you get to talk to your coach.

Hang in there.

I also know what you mean to think you are now living with a different man. I have lost respect for my H because things he once believed in, and I still hold dear, are no longer important to him. He seems to have forgotten what he once believed in. Further, if I can't trust him, the only person I ever thought I could trust fully, who can I trust. Will it be worth it to ever trust someone again... I will likely just be hurt again.

Things a bit better today. Long conversation with H that he initiated - he is confused about reconciling. Thinks he hasn't seen enough "changes" from me to warrant giving our marriage another chance. And I said, he'd see more "changes" from me if/when he ends the relationship with OW. OK, we're at an impasse. I mean, HE is the one who has betrayed our marriage vows, had the affair, and walked out on his wife and family. But he's waiting for ME to make all the changes? I'm willing and able to do my part. But I can't do all of the work.

Of course, a good DB strategy would be to make my changes for myself (which, of course, I AM - but he thinks they are for HIM). So, I need to focus on myself for now and let him see what he's going to be missing if he leaves. Focus on being the best me I can be. And I'm trying.

Give me strength. Help me to stick to my DB approach. Come hell or high water. I need to do this. Even if it means biting my tongue about the OW, his whereabouts, etc. and I can do this. I know I can. I am a strong woman. A two-time breast cancer survivor (five years this October!). So I can do this.

But it is hard.