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This is good. Suggestions:

1&2 need to be more clear. What is clear?
3. Only willingness or comittment?
4. Kind of odd to say. But almost too specific. Retrovaille I'm sure is great. But it's the commitment that matters. Another road to this may be acceptable. No?
5,6&7 May also need to be defined further. HOW? Specifics.

Thinking about this NOW, I believe, will help you if the time comes to deliver it.

Good luck man. You still have a great opportunity to save this thing.

Beastie Boys

I just looked at this and wanted to clarify something. I said 'deliver it'

I, don't know about others, would not recommend putting together a 'speech'

IF she shows she is ready to committ to the M.

A more general description of your 'boundaries' (someone just shivered) is probable the way to start.

But THEN you need to be ready to set specifics that are necessary for you.

Yeah CS ... even with today's developments, I don't think that I am anywhere close to this.

I'm continuing going very dim. W is going to have to come to me at this point.

My goals are still the same 25. I do still want to save my M... but I will say that I'm beginning to get to the point that I can live with that not happening.

MHL... I really think that your post is wise advise, but I feel that much of what you suggest is more of the same stuff that I have been doing over the past several months. I have tried to keep the road home as smooth as f'ing possible for 9 months. That only worked in getting her back to the point where she was NOT sure that she wanted a D. It has NOT worked in bringing her full circle back to the M. The only thing that seems to work right now is distancing myself and creating concern in her mind that she may lose me for good.

Anyway... time for a good chuckle.

I present to you all... Monty Python's presentation of "Denver's 9 month DB Journey" (I am the Black Knight).

"Tis but a scratch... I've had worse!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

BITS
Denver

Sorry, but I don't see this AT ALL.

Letting her come to you. GREAT!

You space. Her space. GREAT!

Boundaries. Needed.

It's been the same advice for several months. BUT. It's not been what you've done. Come on man. Be honest.

What I end up seeing is many people giving very similar advice in different ways. This is just human nature. We have different ways of communicating.

BUT if you look at it's core. It's all very much the same. Break it down to a few words and I think you may see the same.

Ayep.

D I see frustration and probably deservedly so.

You are certainly not doing yourself any favors by your exchanges with W (or non exchanges)

When you ignore her what do you feel? Comfort? Vengeance? Spite?

Not communicating IS communicating just make sure it is what you want to communicate.

And what is that exactly?

CS has a point Denver...

it's not as if you have done this DB thing consistently.

But, I also think she has to fear losing you for her to move towards you...

and yet, she has to trust you enough to want to come back.

So your changes must remain evident.

IMHO nothing will change until this takes place

And this will not take place until Denver is ready to move

Denver will NOT be ready to move on until he creates some distance and allow his W the space she needs and has been craving for.

Denver also NEEDS this time.

CS, Gritter, 25 -

I guess that what I am saying is that W is going to have to come to me and be SURE about what she wants at this point.

I am done letting her draw me back into whatever it is that she is going through right now.

When she is unambiguous about the fact that she wants our M and wants to be with me... then she and I have something to talk about.

I may be here... I may not. Right now, I am living my life... or at least trying to.

I don't feel that I ignored her text messages today at all. I didn't immediately respond to them, but I DID respond.

No, I didn't answer some of her direct questions, such as whether or not I'm 'seeing that woman'. But to me, this falls into the category of 'bait'. It is bait to get me into R talk. And I won't do it right now. I don't want it right now. The ONLY way that I want it is IF and WHEN she is ready to get serious about how WE are going to fix this.

I also need to make clear that I was very pleasant with her today. The old Denver would have been very p!ssed off about the cell phone bill being $200 the norm... I told W today ... 'I'm not upset. It is what it is. It is just money'. And I meant it. I don't let myself get worked up over stuff like that anymore. I don't.

So I think that I am continuing to show some of the changes that I really have made for myself over the past 9 months.

Of course I am not done and have not given up. Someone made the point that I would not have posted with so much detail if I were. I have never said that I don't want to fix my M. I still do. But I AM done letting my happiness ride on my W's every single word and action.

CS and MHL... I have been crystal clear with my W about what I want. I have been since day 1. If me wanting space until she figures her sh!t out is giving her mixed signals, then I guess that's just a consequence of W's actions. I'm done telling her over and over that I want her and I want a great M with her. She KNOWS this.

I told her in July that I would not be here forever. I think that my mixed signals may be putting a little reality into that statement. Because it is the reality... I won't be here forever.

MHL - you told me a few weeks ago that I needed to stop having contact with my W. You said, why do you keep having contact with someone who is causing you pain... or something to that effect.

Well, THAT is the advice that I am taking now.

Gritter - I am still in the fight. Having OW in my life may be showing a chink in my armor... a weakness I suppose. But it is helping find a bit of the mojo that I have needed to find for a long time. I'm going to have to deal with that R at some point I'm sure. And yes, there is a very good chance that OW will get hurt. Valeska pointed out that she doesn't believe that OW is cool with this just being a casual R. She may be right. I don't know. But I am concerned about it... which is why I try to be as honest as I possibly can be.

At the same time, OW and I ARE enjoying each other's company. We have fun together. I guess that I'm not sure that I see the harm in that. And OW is making me think about myself and my M and what I need from my W if there is reconciliation. Is it a crutch for me right now? Probably. As Dantes points out, I need to be honest with myself about that. I am.

And Gritter... I am able to look myself in the mirror. I have learned SO much over the past 9 months. I have fought for my W and for my M like I've never fought for anything in my life. I've taken responsibility for my role in the breakdown of my M. I've held myself accountable. And I've put it all out here for everyone to see. I'm proud of my work here. It IS a work in progress... but as is said here often, it is a journey. However, I know that I am better than I was before I came here.

ahhh... good times.

BITS
Denver

Denver,

I am new to your thread although I have been following your sitch for quite some time now. It is so similar to mine it is almost scary. I have been at this since about mid January and as you can probably tell we are neighbors.

First of all, you have so many wonderful and wise people helping you...you are truly blessed. I'm so impressed with all of you. This place really is a lifesaver.

I really haven't taken the time to do much posting, mostly just observing but for whatever reason I feel compelled to give my 2 cents regarding your recent interactions with your W.

All I can say is from my perspective you can show her more respect in answering her texts as others have suggested. This is yet another chance for you to show her the new Denver and I'm afraid you may be missing the boat a bit.

If nothing else it is a chance to show her you are the bigger person and perhaps make her think a little. Everyone deserves that courtesy even if it is not mutual. I know I am always more comfortable in my own skin when I rise above my W's antics.

Just sayin'

LM