Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Feeling alone and frustrated with a 180.

Well, over the last couple of days I was doing the "steps," and got to "Step 3, ask for what you want." I made the commitment to ask for one of my "baby steps" last night. I wanted us to talk to each other more freely, and I pared it down to having W ask how my day was when I get home. I had two others, but I thought just asking for one thing at a time would probably get better results.

It was a pain in the neck, because I can't really talk to W while the kids are up, and since the oldest is almost 17, so he stays up late almost every night (not typically a big problem - we have a small house, and it is unreasonable to expect him to go to bed at the same time as his younger siblings), I had to wait until W and I were in bed together. I told her that I thought it would be really nice if she just asked me how my day was when I came in, and would she please do that.

Her first response was that she was not sure, because she was really struggling with talking to me right now. Actually, I appreciated the candor, which was closer to intimacy than we have had for a long time.

Then, finally, she turned back to me and said, "So, how *was* your day?"

It was a little victory.

Then this morning, W called up and asked me a trivial piece of information - the year of our car. I answered her, and asked why she wanted to know. She was terse and evasive, and then just said goodbye.

I think she is maybe a little anxious that she let her guard down a little last night, and is perhaps compensating by being distant today. I guess I shouldn't be trying to figure out what is going on outside my own head, but it makes me feel better to think this is what she is doing, rather than starting to doubt if I did something wrong.

Not much else to say today. Will just keep on plugging.

Being here on this board has been so helpful for me. I look forward to checking messages here every day.

I have been wanting to give something back...you know, being there for someone else here, since I am getting so much out of it. But reading many of the posts is really stressful for me. I see other people, so many of them, in far more desperate situations than what I *think* I have, and I start to worry - is my marriage a lot worse than I think.

Maybe it is a good thing for me. I have spent so much of my time in the past in denial, avoiding the fact that W has obviously been in a lot of pain, and just taking the time to relax as long as there is no *overt* conflict. Maybe reading this stuff, getting so shocked, is a way of keeping me out of denial, knowing that things could be really bad and knowing that I need to keep working to become the better person, and detaching from W.

W is still kind of all over the map. When we are around others, she sometimes smiles at me, jokes with me, talks to me as though there is nothing wrong. Then, when we get alone, with all the kids in bed, she is kind of flat. Again, I guess this is just the sort of thing I have to learn to get through. In fact, the very fact that I see it as something to struggle through probably shows that I'm still dysfunctionally attached.

But darn it, I love her so much, and I miss her. Still, I think sometimes I have been so focused on "not losing her" that I have missed opportunities to actually love her. So all this stuff forcing me to really work toward more detachment is probably exactly what I needed for years, and *praying* will, in the end, make our marriage better than what I had dreamed of when I was cowering in fear of losing the one I love.

Assuming we survive the cure, as they say.

Two nights ago, W asked me why I had asked if she would ask me about my day, the other night. If anyone recalls, that was my "Step 3." After a long hesitation, I told her about the book (we used to have DB, so she is familiar with it). She asked how I got the idea to start reading the book again, and I really did not recall. Just came to my mind one day, and I googled it, found a list of how to avoid pursuing (I think it was the LRT, although not labeled that way), and once I started seeing some results from that, decided to get the rest of the book. She listened, and her response was very matter of fact, and flat. I don't know what she is thinking, and I guess it is not my business to know. I just hope that I will make real improvements that mean something to her.

Really, she is not threatening D at this time. She is emotionally absent in a way I have never seen before, and in a way she might as well have already left. What I really want is for our marriage to be a source of good for her - I want her to derive joy from our marriage. I figure if that happens, she will be here more than just physically, and we can have intimacy (not just physical) again.

Well, my break is up, and I have a lot of work to do today.

See you later.

In many cases it has taken time for the the spouse to build up the emotional dettachment. The ability to move on to not care anymore. Whatever you want to call it.

Telling the spouse about "Divorce Remedy" or your plans to change, or how you want to try, and this time you really mean it, tend to fall into the initial reaction of: "Too little, too late."

You're basically screwing with a long term plan of theirs. A decision they had finally come to because nothing else worked, and really? Why is it going to be any different this time?

Ignore the flat attitude you got, and just prove her wrong.
Not by telling her she is wrong, but by showing her that she is wrong, consistently and over a period of time.

And for the love of God and all that is good, do not tell her about this place. This is your safe place; and ours.

Jack is right on the money here ^^^^^^^...

And of course it makes sense, since he's a mod...

Psych, understand that you need have NO FEAR that your sitch is worse than it might appear to you. Because here's the thing... the fact that YOU are here... the fact that YOU are WORKING on being introspective about YOU and WORKING on BECOMING A BETTER YOU is the most important thing...

If your sitch ends up in D, you can ultimately KNOW that YOU did as much as you could to save your M, given the resources available to you and your ability and willingness to do the necessary work.

Yes, there are plenty here that might appear worse than your sitch. Again, your ability to understand... things... certainly qualifies you to offer support, even if it's indicating your empathy for your fellow DBers. That goes a long way to helping them.

Again, just reminding you this is a marathon... understand that your W is working through her own stuff. At least it appears to be that way, by your description that she appears "all over the map" and examples of such. So you need to just keep being the best Psych that you can be and keep working on YOU.

You guys are awesome! I really appreciate the encouragement I get from you, as (you are probably well aware of this) doing this is really hard. I am WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of practice taking care of myself and really even considering my own wants and needs. I am accustomed to being dependant, and focusing everything on what I should do for my family.

But, I guess you can't really love someone who is like that.

I will prove her wrong about me. But I understand what you are saying, that I have to make the changes because it is what I want to become, not because I want to prove something. That is the kind of change that will last, W will not believe it will last until she sees it last. That is where the "marathon" comes in.

And don't worry, I won't tell her about this board. I think I am finally getting the fact that I really need to have some place just for myself. I am glad you all are here.

BRAVO!
Pat yourself on the back, get yourself a drink from the top shelf, but realize what you just wrote there...is pure gold.

What does this mean?

Sorry, Sandi. I was kind of mixing my metaphors when I wrote that. Have you started reading DB or DR yet?

The books outline a 7 step program, and step number 3 is to ask for what you want. But only after step 2, which is figuring out what you want. Step 2 offers guidance in refining what you are hoping to get in your marriage. First, rather than a complaint, it has to be a positive thing you want. Second, it has to be specific - something you or your spouse (or both) can concretely do. Third, you have to take that goal and whittle it down to the smallest demonstration that would show that the marriage is moving in the direction you want it to go. If what you really want is to have a warm, romantic spouse, you might need to start with spouse smiling at you once every day. That is what you ask for.

So, I imagine you can see how I thought of what I was asking for as a "baby step" in the direction of what I wanted. And, just as Step 3 instructs, I asked for it.

And JTB, thanks for the cheerleading! It really is encouraging.

Psych - good for you, asking for what you want.

I thought that step was supposed to be skipped if spouse is pretty much checked out though.

How has your 'ask' worked out so far?

Yeah, I guess W has kind of checked out...emotionally, anyway. But I am really holding myself strictly to the whole routine - historically I am very good at justifying skipping things that I convince myself "don't apply to me" (translation: I don't want to do them). I'm notorious for not "doing the homework." So, I am not letting myself off the hook for anything, unless I truly believe it would be harmful - and I really didn't think this would be.

When I asked W for what I wanted, she expressed some doubt about how much she really wanted to talk with me right now. I said I understood, and that there was no harm in asking, and she said, "You're right, there isn't." It was actually very encouraging. She seemed to be pleased (in a small way) that I was straightforward with her in that matter. And I was glad that she could honestly express her misgivings to me, instead of just demonstrating them. So overall, the initial interaction was positive, from my perspective.

Since then...well, she hasn't asked me again about my day. It doesn't really bother me. It was actually kind of a growth experience to ask for something, when I am already feeling so much at a disadvantage, and so guilty for all the ways I have contributed to the discord in our marriage. An exercise in treating myself like my feelings count.

And, to come full circle, it is an experience I wouldn't have had if I had excused myself from this step because W is checked out. So, while I agree with you, our situation probably qualifies as one where I could have skipped step 3, in the end it not only didn't do any harm, it actually was the source of some progress.

Today, I have been very neurotic. W and 5 kids are going to take a 5 day trip without me starting Friday. I decided I wouldn't come (for multiple reasons), and thought it would be good for me - assert my separateness from W, give myself some time to take care of me, get my thoughts sorted out, etc. Now, I am starting to freak out. Our M, although riddled with problems for some time, really hit the rocks when I was living away from the family in the midst of an attempt to move across country. W learned that she didn't need me, could get along without me, was less stressed when I wasn't there. I came back and we were more distant than ever before. So, part of me is afraid of this coming separation, though brief - will she become more convinced that "without me" is a better way to be?

As I type it out, it seems kind of ridiculous. A brief trip can only give us space. It would be hard for so little time to result in that much greater distance. But most fears are irrational - especially the fear that makes us cling to our distant spouses, when this only pushes them out the door.

Read through Sandi's list (linked on another thread), and I realize how much difficulty I am having being consistent in these changes. I haven't been exactly successful - each day I look over the previous night, and recall times when I was acting needy or desperate, or when I lost the opportunity to learn to be happy and fulfilled - a "whole" person. I have spent so long being a half a person, needing my other half, that it is really an effort to try to be my own being. Need to work on that.