Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Feeling alone and frustrated with a 180.

Kaffe,

I appreciate this exchange with you.

I have had places in my life where I felt safe with my feelings. As you can imagine, they have been pretty rare, and in those situations I became very dependent upon those particular situations. I think that is one of the problems with my relationship with W - for a long time she was sort of my "safe place," making me very dependent on her. That becomes a problem when there is friction between us, because under those circumstances I cannot allow her the freedom to back off from me, because it would mean losing the only context where I know how to process my feelings. Problem is that once I realized this, I HAD to give her space (hey, I may be insensitive sometimes, but I do care about her needs), but I still didn't have anyplace else to go with my feelings. They just kind of shut off.

I am aware that I have feelings. Often painfully aware. That is the problem - not that I don't have them, but that they often overwhelm me because I don't know where they fit in to my thoughts and perceptions. That oversimplifies it, but I think you understand.

Acting impulsively sounds nice. I get scared to just act because I have often done things that seemed harmless to me, and found out that they weren't. Believe me, that is not intended to be an excuse not to change, just an obstacle I have to deal with. It really is scary, because the last thing I want to do is to hurt anyone. Maybe what you were talking about with the feelings - in little, safe scenarios - might help.

You give me a lot to think about. Perhaps as important, you give me someone else I can open up to.

NP, Psych...

I get that co-dependent R with your W. So how does life work for you when you don't have to deal with your feelings?

Of course, there's a need to empathize with your W, so you'll have to open the gates a little to your feelings to do that.

I'm just wondering, do you have a process where you can be safe by yourself, yet still process emotions? I don't know, I'm just putting thoughts out there to get an idea...

Ultimately, you are here to work on you and maybe save your M. I'm just trying to get some basis to work with you on those things...

I don't remember if you mentioned any GAL activities or 180s you might be doing right now...

Well, that's the problem. I don't really know how to process my feelings independently - they kind of run in the background of my thought process, except when they become too strong and demand processing, and then I'm overwhelmed. Kind of like an ocean - just a part of the scenery until there is a hurricane, then it messes up everything you've built.

Wow, asking me to describe things, you are reallly making me think and define problems that I've always assumed a normal part of my mental life (never really thought about), until they became a problem.

GAL is really hard for me, given that I have 5 children, 3 of whom really look forward to my reading to them at night, and 2 of whom are teenagers with whom I can now have more "adult" conversations. I worry about them - I am hoping hard for our marriage, because I don't want this to be the lasting picture of marriage that they go into life with. I go to Karate classes 3 times a week, but I have thought about going maybe one more time (the 3 times are 3 days in a row, and I really could use more exercise regularly). Strangely, I have started doing some housework - W and I always have difficulty keeping straight, what with 5 kids in a small house - but mostly because *I* want to have a more orderly place to live, not to please W or win her approval. So I guess that sort of qualifies as taking control of *my* life. And I have thought of taking up drawing again - years ago, I used to be quite talented with charcoal, and was starting in pastels. It doesn't get me as socially connected as I would like, but at least it would be something that is mine. The social part is problematic, given my schedule, and the need to be available to my kids and take my share of responsibilities at home.

180s...well, you know something about Asperger's, so you can guess how I am with change! I have been trying not to pursue my wife, and I feel like it is killing me. It goes so much against my inclinations - hard not to act desperate when you FEEL so desperate. And I have to admit, I have only had intermittent success with it. Sometimes I still find myself waiting for her to say something, afraid to do what I want to do for fear I will miss a moment when she is more open to me. OK, I guess that sounds pretty pathetic. Perhaps when I have more things of MINE to occupy me, it will be easier not to be so focused on HER reaction to me. In a sense, even my picking up around the house (and getting on the kids' backs to get things cleaned up) is kind of a 180, because I used to be so focused on having W's attention I hardly paid attention to anything else (Yeah, getting too obsessed with the relationship really can have negative consequences, huh?).

Actually, this board is a part of my GAL, surprisingly. I don't build friendships very easily, and I really need to speak with another adult sometimes. I know it is not enough, and I really do need to find people IRL I can talk to, but for now, this is at least one way of reaching out.

You know what? I just thought of another 180, something that kind of happened automatically as I have been detaching.

Typically, when W does something that hurt my feelings my response was either to dismiss it and make excuses (hey, I am often overly sensitive to things, maybe what she did wouldn't have been so offensive if I weren't) or lose my temper. Yesterday was different.

I was doing a chore around the back yard while W was on the back porch talking to one of her friends. I fell over and broke one of our things (details don't matter), and W looked up and remarked, "Great, what did you do now?" Didn't ask if I was OK or anything. Anyway, I didn't dismiss it, but I also didn't say a word. I was incredibly angry and felt like doing something spiteful. But I went to our bedroom, calmed down while taking care of some other things that needed to get done there, and a few minutes later, after her friend had left, came back out to her. I had decided I was going to calmly tell her that I already knew I had been clumsy and broken something, and her bringing it to my attention did not contribute anything to the situation. I have to say, it's amazing how much calmer I can be when I have let go of all my expectations of W (expecting a supportive attitude, expecting affection, expecting love, etc.)

Before I managed to say a word, she apologized to me for being rude! I couldn't believe it!

I think I heard her friend reacting to the way she had spoken to me, so that might have prompted her.

And that doesn't mean that the rest of the evening went off perfectly. No, it was uncomfortable, with neither of us knowing what to say when we were together. But that was a total change for how I handled a conflict.

Yay for small successes!

The way I see it Psych, is that you have (had to have) lived your life compartmentalizing everything so that each and every possible situation or condition can be resolved by referring to the right file folder...

Yet you understand that there are some mysteries that still do not have a file folder... and those are where you get stuck...

No matter how much you feel constrained by... ARE constrained by your condition... there are times when you have to live by the seat of your pants...

Is there a way that you can create a file folder with an "other" label?

And in that "other" folder... how can you act or be in those situations? That you'd be OK... regardless of how you acted or reacted and the subsequent consequences...?

IOW, is there a way you can find in yourself to do the reverse of the norm... your own... 180 as it were... where you are OK with processing AFTER rather than processing BEFORE...?

Just putting that out there... I have no idea how that might look for you...

And great job your GALs and on taking charge of your life... of the things that YOU can control... and accepting that no matter what consequence might be (ie. how your W might find meaning in what you are doing and might react)... you will simply do them... and do them with good intentions...

Just a thought on the drawing... how you mention it does not get you as socially connected as you might think or want... I can imagine that you are QUITE talented at it and I'm wondering... is there any way that you might... get these drawing published or publicly displayed... if you can... you've made the social connection and that would be FANTASTIC!

The 180s... doing what appears to be counter intuitive... well, actually IS counter intuitive... I absolutely get that suddenly your feelings get in the way and you struggle with that... that's where I'm wondering about the baby steps... opening the gates only a small bit at a time... do what you do and try to make your 180s a little... shorter... if you know what I mean... it may allow you to process your emotions in a more manageable way...

In your second post, I just want to pick on your comment of how "details don't matter".

I understand that for the purpose of brevity, you have left the details out... I just want to be sure that you have not entered into a situation with your life where you are denying who you are... IOW... for YOU... details DO matter...

Never be something you are NOT. You can always work on yourself to be better, but we can not deny us leopards have our spots and we cannot change them...

Just saying. I suspect you know this, just that I hope in your own life... you haven't lost sight of the trees, for the forest... understand?

And AWESOME job taking that time out... this could be something you may want to work on, more... not sure how to broach that with your W, but if you don't already have a "key phrase", you may want to let your W know that when you are having moments of emotional stress, you say out loud so your W understand "red light" or something like that... she will know that you need to walk away and deal with your emotions in a safe, constructive way... we ALL need to stop and take a breathe in the moment of stress, otherwise our mouths operate faster than our brains can interject...

Kaffe, if you're not an Aspie, you have one heck of a talent for reading them. What do you do for a living?

I do have problems handling novel situations - that stresses me out tremendously, and those are often the times I get out of control. Freak out, overreact, you know.

I kind of like the idea you have about an "other" folder...a sort of default response, when other responses, to circumstances I know, are not triggered. I am not sure exactly what kind of response that would be. I have to think about that, maybe even take it up with my therapist.

Well, I don't know exactly how talented I am, but first thing, I have to find the time. I guess a lot of that is going to depend on learning to spend less time worrying - that should free up a little bit .

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "opening the gates a little at a time." Gates to what? My feelings? My own, separate life? I might be able to think about implementing that better if I knew.

Thank you for your affirmation of ME. I know, now, that the only way she is, or I am, going to love me is for myself, not for someone else I am pretending to be. Even if I could win her affections by being someone I am not, it couldn't last. That is probably part of what got us into this mess in the first place.

Well, I finally went to the library and checked out DR - never saw the "updated" version, and I don't remember much of the original, so I really need the refresher. Wish I wasn't such a slow reader.

Finally, yesterday I let my mouth slip a little bit, but caught myself quickly. My wife came home and my son had a minor injury (shut his hand in the car door). I told him to go inside and we would see how much it swelled. W came to me later and said it makes her mad that I (an advanced practice nurse) didn't immediately take care of him, ice it, etc. Honestly, as I write it here, I can't really give a good reason why I didn't. But at that moment what I heard her saying was, "What kind of nurse are you? What kind of father are you?" It attacked me to my core, because I don't really have much of a life of my own yet, and the "husband" role is kind of wrecked right now, so the nurse and the father are pretty much all of my identity. I know, my own insecurities, not her problem. I stood there, silent, not knowing what to say. She looked like she wanted an answer, and I couldn't come up with one. A few minutes later, I snapped at her about it, but after I said the first sentence, I knew I was going to lose control (usually happens when I feel defensive), so I said, "I can't talk now," and walked quickly out of the room.

So, not as good as recognizing a loss of control before it happened, but better than letting it spiral out of control. I'll give myself half credit.

This is kind of big, because two nights in a row I cut off a potential meltdown - and I have never really been able to do that once before.

Still, W was kind of cold for the rest of the night, and things were a little tense.

One of my problems is I have trouble having confidence. I always look for some kind of feedback to let me know that what I am doing is on the right track. Makes it difficult in a run that is a "marathon."

Thanks for listening.

Psych,

I do not mean to offend in my ignorance of Aspergers...

It also kept me from posting, although you're in very good hands with Kaffe.

I am more of an indirect poster. I don't want to tell a person what to do, I'd rather get a person to think. To see outside the box. I like asking questions in order to do this. Questions, hopefully designed to look at yourself.

I don't know if I'm going to be helpful or hurtful to you though.

But I also do not want to think I abandoned you either.


The confidence thing.

I totally lost mine when all of this happened to me as well.

I found that by starting small, doing little things to get my confidence back help alot. Smile at a pretty woman, and get on in return. Build something or fix something, a little bit more. Small steps to regaining the confidence in myself.

JTB -

I love to have more input.

Please don't feel uncomfortable not knowing about my condition. In most ways, I look just like an ordinary person. The problem is, when I have emotions I am not prepared to process, I have a meltdown, and then I look like an oridinary person who is being an *anal sphincter*.

The only thing that is really hurtful to me in that arena is when people don't respect the fact that I do have some unique challenges. Everyone does. Only difference is, a lot of mine come with a great label that allows me to refer to them in "shorthand." Oh, and it also includes a body of research that I can read for my unique problems.

Doing little things to get confidence back. Yes, that could help. Just developing a general sense of confidence could help me to feel confident in carrying out the strategies to recover our marriage, even in the absence of any confirmation I am on the right track.

Thanks for the input. It was simple, literal, and involves concrete action. Perfect for me!

There is one thing about last night that has been nagging at me, that I didn't say before. I am worried that I have left W with the impression that she has to "walk on eggshells" around me. I am sure that I must have overreacted to what she said, and even though I stopped myself from REALLY melting down, I fear she will take this as evidence that she needs to avoid conflict between us, as I have been doing for years.

I have always been afraid of conflict. Terrified is more like it. Now, I am trying to learn to cope with it, and I don't want it to be too late.

Thanks, Beans...

And to be very vague in my response to your question Psych... I can only say that I have life experiences that have enlightened me... the truth... if I say more than that, my sitch... well, to preserve anonymity, I need to be vague...

Opening the gates to your feelings, yes... I understand that will always be a challenge. One thing I know with "Aspies" is that very often, one would never even guess that of you... I don't know how many even know that "label"... You have the luxury of being anonymous of the label, people more often just find you... eccentric... lol!

Anyhow, on the feelings, that's something you may never get a handle on. But if you can experience them, carefully and methodically, you can probably find a folder that fits, when they come up and you need to deal with them. Sorta like the "red light" thing...

Very impressed on catching yourself (even though it seemed "late") and putting yourself in "time out". That's exactly the response you can do in those situations.

I see that as part of the "other" folder. No single human is going to perfectly and always stem off the reaction. So as fast as you can notice the reaction, that's when you can ACT accordingly.

"Open the gates a tiny bit", conduct yourself in real life, feel the anxiety well up, and then shut off the gates, call "red light" and get to a safe place to process...

Makes sense to me... maybe for you, too...?

The sense you got when your W appeared cold after the hand incident... that's OK... that's normal, both in your feeling and in her outward expression... what we can't know is what she was feeling or thinking... and that's the mysteries that can never be categorized nor have a folder...

Kaffe Diem...from Eureka?