Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums We're separated--What Now? 4evah'n'evah... awww maaan...

Just a quick little journal note.

W had gone to an outdoor music fest this past weekend. The kids were away, out of province. W went there with some friends and OM.

A friend tells me that W's friend where the kids went posted on W's fb saying kids were great, they are so good. W did not respond to that post, yet within an hour, is posting how much fun she had past weekend and posts pics (of the group "having fun").

I don't really care, but it's relevant for below...

W emailed yesterday indicating kids wondering on next visits. I responded saying I'd call tonight.

I tried calling a few times, no answer at the house.

I emailed W at 10p indicating that it might be difficult to schedule visits as W indicated kid's schedule quite tight.

W emails and asked if I want D8 this weekend. This is sent from her BB phone.

I sent email back asking if it was too late to call. now about 10:15pm.

W finally emails back, still from BB indicating that D8 is at friends (does not say she's there for sleep over, but it's late already) and that D13 is at home and probably not answering the phone...

I'm thinking to myself... Is W leaving D13 at home alone again? Is W in such a good mood (and she's taken this week off work, so no other obligations other than kids) that she's over at concert friends for another sleep over and leaving D13 home alone again?

So I'm posting this here as a reminder so that I don't forget if necessary for the lawyers...

I acknowledge that my last post is my issues. Although my W did send me one last email at midnight from her BB so was certainly not home, I have no reason to think that D13 was unsafe.

The next morning I was driving and thinking to myself that today was the beginning of a great future. It came to me as:

"If things were not exactly the way they are right now, the future would be completely different."

I have no doubt the future looks good for me. And while I still have my hopes, my doubts, my fears, whatever... if I was still hopeful that my M could be saved, then the future would look different. And I'm not sure that future would be good. That future could simply be "more of the same".

I could be in a better place... I do not like where I am right now... and that does not mean that I have to keep trying to figure out how to save my M. Rather, it just means that I need to continue to move myself (emotionally) towards a better place that I will like...

Another quick note on the above theme...

I had D8 this weekend. My W had let me know that D8 was going to go for a few days with a cousin from Sun to Tue. Cool on that.

As I originally think that I would be dropping D8 back at the house on Sun to be ready for the next event, my W starts talking about a scenario of me dropping D8 directly off at cousins (about half way to the house). I'm thinking about the situation and how D8 would have to either travel with a week's worth of clothes or how that would work.

I then realized that OM and enabling friend lives very close to cousin's... and of course that starts festering in me. How W is probably working in a weekend with OM and will drop stuff off for D8 at cousin's.

No fear, I let that go pretty quick, although it did bother me a bit and reeked of control again. I ended up letting it go. The chips would fall where they fell.

I end up having a meeting on Sun and my W is having trouble confirming with cousin regarding drop off of D8. I figure I can either drop D8 off before meeting at house, or D8 will have to wait until meeting over (a half hour). D8 is all panicked about this. As it comes to 11th hour, W finally calls. She got a hold of cousin and I should get D8 there, otherwise the opportunity for D8 to spend with cousin could be lost.

I choose to be late to meeting and drop D8 off at cousin's. I find out that cousin would be driving by house to pick up stuff for D8.

So the end of this story is, I could have dropped D8 off at house earlier and everything would have been fine. Instead, it feels like my W was simply trying to ensure that I DID NOT go to the house to drop D8 off. I miss a part of my meeting that W is aware of because W is manipulating my affairs with D8.

Still more of the same with W.

In the end, I am OK with what happened. Not because W was all over ensuring I did not drop D8 off at the house or the stress my D8 was going through because of the uncertainty nor because it was OK for me to miss part of my meeting.

I am OK with what happened because... had I dropped D8 off at the house earlier, she would not have had the opportunity to have her first attempt at trying to water ski. An opportunity that she may not otherwise had this summer. And I know she was so happy to have done that.

So as I drove away from cousin's realizing the gained opportunity for D8, the negative feelings just fell off me.

Yes, I am upset that W manipulated the transition to next event of D8 that did not have to happen.

But if things were not exactly as the are, the future would have been so much different...

hmmmm...

Had a possible "light bulb" moment... well, the light bulb was there, but not sure if it's on or off, yet...

I'm taking a moment to try to look for some psychological reason for my W's mindset right now...

We all know this... we can't believe they don't want to be with us, so there must be some thing messing up their heads... of course, not saying there isn't, but we just want to believe this is probably the case...

Anyhow... and I almost feel bad about this, and of course, that is the beauty of it... I SHOULD feel bad about having this thought... if the suspicion is "wrong"...

I have NEVER seen any physical evidence or documentation that proved that my W's prior BF (D13's dad) EVER physically abused her... now, there's ALL SORTS of abuse...

But as I go back in my memories... I've got nothing... I do not KNOW that he hit her... I do not KNOW that he threatened to take D13... I do not KNOW that he yelled a lot and threw things and was so scary... I BELIEVE that to be so... because I BELIEVE(d) my W when she said those things...

There is only one person that I know who was close enough to W at the time, that might actually have seen evidence... This friend of mine is no longer friends with my W... long story but we'll just say that this friend was summarily judged by my W for exactly the same things that my W is now doing, herself...

The question is... what would I do with that information?

The answer is... I will simply have an answer to my question.

If the answer is "no, I saw no evidence", it does not mean it isn't true... but the BF did NOT challenge the court... but it was alongside evidence of drug use, so there was some wrong doing... W used the complete case to remove BF from her life to such an extent, that he knew that any false move and she would remove D13 from his life, completely... he finally... gave up... every once in a while, he has asked for visits or phone conversations...

If the answer is "Yes", then that's what the answer is, and nothing more...

I'm just wondering... because I was close enough to my W at the time, include the last "incidence" that I would think I would have seen something... that I would remember some type of evidence... unless I've blocked that, for some reason...

Not sure if this is another moment of clarity...

Took a quick little walk and was thinking to myself...

don't trip, don't trip, don't trip...

but that's usually unconscious....

The CONSCIOUS thought was... who am I to judge my W for having "friends" who are much younger than her? Finding new people to "hang" with and party with, occasionally?

I don't mean that facetiously...

I have friends who are younger, that I occasionally party with. I have friends who are older, that I occasionally party with... I have friends... ok, you get the picture...

I'm not saying that I think what she's doing is healthy... she has been partying a lot more than "normal" and the tendency is to be hanging with younger people in order to seek that out...

But as far as AGE being some important factor in the deal... it's not...

at least... that's how I feel right now...

just wish she would seek knowledge and growth and enlightenment through means OTHER THAN going out drinking with the buds...

I hear this. Most of my W's new friends are much younger.. relatively speaking. But I think you are demonstrating some insight - why would you judge her for that? What does it do for you? Is there something about it that makes you feel differently about yourself?

If you or I do it, wouldn't it be called GAL?




And I think this speaks to the matter a little more clearly - it is frustrating because its GAL but not towards the ends that we might hope for. But we have to accept that they are entitled to do that if they choose.

As the LBS, we are kind of confronted with the fact that we need to take care of ourselves and soothe ourselves w/o our WAW's validation. We are often confronted with the loss of it in a very real way, and forced to pick ourselves up and know ourselves better. In a way, we have a real opportunity to grow and much of the DB stuff promotes exactly that.

Would it be better if we reacted 'right' from the get go? Of course, but either way, we are confronted with the situation and choose to find a way to grow and take care of ourselves in a way that we didn't choose to within the M. I would posit that those who see DB as a set of tactics to 'win back' miss the bigger picture and will probably find themselves in a kind of relationship samsara until they can move beyond the 'tactical' approach to relating to other human beings.

We then are in a far better position to choose or want our W rather than need them. We are also better equipped to experience the possibility of rejection w/o going to pieces or having a crisis of self.

Sometimes it can be an important step in facilitating a better R w/ the WAS... but it is always about a healthier R with ourself.

The WAS is confronted w/ a similar set of choices, but since they are also often avoiding a certain amount of self-confrontation (thus the fluidity of their reason for walking), they may continue along in their own patterns because they also have to justify the decision they just made. They have to "make it work." This is frustrating for the LBS, I think, because it often seems like rather than evolving their thoughts, they are going to just entrench.

Also - these friends - do they symbolize an enabling force for you? People that would be more likely to tell W what they think she wants to hear, than what she probably needs to hear?

More reading tonight... wow... my GAL is just, stinkin' awesome...! lol

Anyhow, I found a very interesting ‘Series On Manipulation Tactics’ and have been quite "blown away" by some of the insights I have read...

Now, I'm not saying that WASs are in some way... disordered... at least, not in some chronic way... rather, I'm guessing that a lot of the possible cognitive dissonance that comes up during their (I'll call) transitional state, and the attempts at reducing the dissonance, such as seeking validation for their uncomfortable feelings, re-writing history, and possible, radical "acting out" (maybe as an attempt to see "what fits" the new "norm")... there's also many apparent similarities in "disordered" behaviours...

Of course, the LBS also shows "disordered" tendencies as well... perhaps a human nature way to reduce dissonance and a version of mirroring brought on by the trauma of the sudden change in lifestyle and behaviour of the WAS... not right or wrong, good or bad...

At least... so long as these things... these behaviours themselves don't become chronic...

Anyhow... just interesting stuff... and elicits thoughts on perhaps SOME reasons as to why my W is in the emotional / mental state that shes at, regarding our M...

But that's just info and reasons... neither here nor there, as they say...

The OTHER unconscious thought was:

rock, rock, rock, pebble, rock, stick... SQUIRREL!





To speak on and answer this first:

Absolutely. I believe it is both a spoken and an unspoken validation of my W's value or rather stated... her attractiveness.

I would not presume to analyze my W (or rather to assert my analysis), but in my experience of her, she does have huge self esteem issues.

So while I believe I showed her and told her how much I loved her and saw her beauty... It's very possible it was either not enough, or it was not in a way that she could hear me...

On the rest of your post, well stated.

And to be fair... while the LBS may forever believe that the WAS (by virtue of not becoming enlightened in a way that matched our vision of their enlightenment) never had that moment of clarity and learning...

It is very possible that, in their very own way, they will become enlightened in their journey in a way that is exactly necessary for the next portion of their journey through life...

Even if that means moving forward on a path that is different than that of the LBS...

Well, the answer from my friend was "No". She had not seen any evidence of abuse.

Of course, she also pointed out that abusers generally do not leave evidence, unless they get lazy or it hugely escalates.

And of course, I think to myself, how could I even question the legitimacy of my W's plight at the time...

So... it's just information...

Received an email earlier today from my W about 1PM

Generally, there's a reason... It was very specifically about the kids.

Simply stated that D8 had been sick the past couple days but is on Dr. prescribed med and is feeling better now, so that's good.

I didn't know D8 was sick and it's nice that she mentioned it and that she's better now.

Also, mentioned that D13 was missing me and wanted to call.

I might guess that was initiated by W as not sure if D13 is no longer mad at me. Still, nice to know that D13 wants to talk.

So I responded back with empathy for D8 and also for W having to deal with the puke pail... (That was usually my job) And also mentioned that D13 can always call me whenever she wants.

Short and pleasant both ways.