Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers New - HELP! Tried the 180/Last Resort & Failed

hi alone, I just finished reading your story. I am sorry for all that you are going through. You have recieved some great advice from a few people. I want to say that being a friend to our WAS can be very tough. There is a fine line between being a friend and being a push over. You need to be friendly in the few conversations you have with your EP. Notice i said "few conversations". Stop taking all his calls, stop being at his beck and call. Make him think your too busy to stop what you are doing. Take a day, even 2 days to return his messages. I am wondering, just how many logistical issues can you still have to settle?

You have no children, not legally married and your home is being sold. What is the logistical connection?

Now i want to congratulate you on taking a higher paying job even though it is less interesting to you. Congratulations on the bike. 6 miles a day is a great way to think about this wonderful new adventure you are starting.

Alot of us live at home til we go to university, then we live on campus and experience that life. Some of us then move on to the real world and some of us move back home. By the sounds of it, you didnt get to experience this. You never got to experience the first apartment by yourself.

I think you need to embrace moving to the studio apartment. focus your energy on making this move the start of your new "adult life". YOur first step towards independance.

You obviously know the layout of the place, take some time to plan it. The layout of your furniture, the colors of the wall. Your very own first house warming party! I might add that you do not invite your EP. Really make that apartment your oasis in this crazy time of your life.

Please find something to focus on other than him and OW. I know how it can affect ones sanity. I like the apartment move, its a reason of celebration. Stop taking his calls, and when you do, dont talk about your relationship of his relationship with OW. If he starts down that path in the conversation, act like you have somewhere to be and you just realized the time. Dont be mean, but get out of the conversation quickly. Dont put yourself through the pain.

I hope some of what i said helps you. I will keep reading and I hope you get to a better place in your heart and mind soon.

Thanks so much Tank, for your support and understanding.

You really hit the nail on the head about my life experience - or lack thereof. I missed all of those 'normal' experiences of adolescence and young adulthood and now I feel so badly that I am struggling with just handling normal adult responsibilities. (In fact, I'm not handling them so well at all.)

I'm trying to act strong and confident, but I am so anxious spending time alone and am so depressed on top of it. The emotional fallout of the last few months and losing the person I assumed was my soul-mate is just indescribable - worse than death for me.

I try to tell myself that the pain is actually making me stronger and better - that this isn't a step backwards, its actually a step forwards even though I feel far LESS competent than the woman I was. The fact is, I wasn't all that competent to begin with, but my relationship with Ex-P masked that.

Also, I was very close with Ex-P's family, and I am shocked that no one has contacted me since this all began. I miss them so badly and have spent every holiday with them for the last 20 years. Holiday situations at my own family were never so good and I just miss my inlaws' love and company and support.

A few weeks after I found out Ex-P was leaving me and about OW, I wrote them a long letter telling them how much I loved, valued, and would miss them all - especially my MIL. I never sent the letter for fear of the reaction from them and Ex-P. Blood is thicker than anything.

You are also correct that there are few issues left to untangle. It was weird that as much as Ex-P wanted to be done with me, he dragged his feet every step of the way in terms of actually moving his stuff out. It was almost as if he was just too lazy or preoccupied with OW to even shut the door on his old life to make things simpler for me to get the house on the market. He actually left me a list of repairs & cosmetic improvements that he wanted me to make before I put the place on the market - and he expected me to do everything while he spent weekends traveling to be with OW.

I imagine that I'll see him two more times: once tomorrow to take care of some financial matters (we have to go to the bank together) and once when our house is sold and we'll both have to be at the closing.

I went through a period where I delayed answering his calls, etc. It didn't seem to matter at all. But it is *somewhat* true that the more you pull away, the more they seek attention (not necessarily in a good way). For example, today he sent me an email about tomorrow's meeting, I answered in just a few short words (all that was required). It resulted in two more emails with silly reminders about stuff we already discussed. I'm not answering because I already KNOW those things. I'm not a moron.

How is your own sitch going Tank? I see that you were also highschool sweethearts (though similar in age...Ex-P was a bit older than me but I had just started my junior year when we met). Did you have similar issues of trauma associated with the abandonment/separation with your significant other?

Dating a significantly older guy in highschool meant that I didn't have many friends because their parents thought I would be a bad influence, etc., so I lost my closest friends and just adopted Ex-P's friends as my own (truly, I would have been a 'bad influence' because Ex-P was in his 'rebellious stage' and provided all sorts of substances). I lived with Ex-P all through college and, at the time, I missed being involved in campus activities and developing friends that way, etc. Now I feel like I don't know how to 'make friends'.

I also think about my future with men. Ex-P was my first and only...I'm actually scared of men and feel like dating would be very off-putting and I wouldn't know how. I see a lot of loneliness ahead of me. I'm so scared.

Ex-P is coming here tomorrow to pick up stuff and we have to go to the bank together. Does anyone have any last minute advice on what I should do/how I should act???

Can I ask him to step outside if he has to take a call from OW? I just don't feel I can hear it.

Its been many weeks since I've seen him face to face. I am afraid of crumbling after he leaves. I'm dreading seeing his "anti-hussy" ring - but at the same time, I just want to laugh at what a possessive freak the OW is!

you have the 37 rules of DBing right?

READ THEM and APPLY THEM...

(remember, APPLY THEM OR THEY WON'T WORK...)

no "helping him deal with OW or her son"...

be upbeat about YOUR LIFE and YOUR FUTURE....

contrast the person you WERE with who you are becoming...

be independent, smart, interestED and interestING but kind of busy with your new life

you have had an awakening, etc...

read the rules over & over before he gets there and come up with some specific things to say

IF he says something or asks you something and you think the answer matters BUT

you are not sure how to answer, THEN DON'T...just listen & listen

and tell him you'll have to "process" that before replying


and accept his FINANCIAL help if he offers...

you deserve it and he knows it.

Stop buying into what a piece of crap you fear you are.

You deserve better

in case you can't find the "rules", here they are...

adjust accordingly if you are sure you must. ONLY then...and from where I sit, most of this applies to you.


I recommend copy and paste on Word and print it out. Carry it in your pocket if you have too.

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.

21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).

27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.

30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.

33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

Hi 25years,

I followed the rules. Boy did I look cute (short-shorts, scoop neck t-shirt, new lipstick, 'good hair' day). No mention of it from Ex-P though he said I've lost a lot of weight. He looked handsome as heck (I said nothing). He said I kept looking at his ring...I wasn't looking at it. I said, "I'm actually looking at your new haircut" (I used to cut his hair). He said he hated his new haircut at first, but I thought it looked good so I said "its fine".

He kept on saying how good I was doing. No doubt he remembers that before I discovered DBing, I did everything wrong (crying, begging, claiming I couldn't live without him, etc.) and he was surprised I was holding it together so well now. He offered me a hug before leaving and I accepted, he gave me two. He said, "It was good seeing you, keep up the good work." It was all SO PARENTAL and so detached...like we had never been a couple - like I was a child he was leaving at summer camp. He was calling me by his nickname for me throughout, and when he left I said, "goodbye [nickname for Ex-P]" then he looked kinda sad. I don't know whether he was pitying me, worrying about me (he said he worries so much), or was just surprised I used his nickname - but it just slipped out because it had been a comfortable encounter.

I said I would see him again when the house sold. He said, "maybe I'll see you before then." I doubt it.

That was it. During our brief encounter I mentioned my mother was visiting over an upcoming weekend. He said "what's the occasion?" I said, "My birthday." He sighed a long, guilty sigh but I stayed upbeat. He also mentioned his trip to meet OW's extended family was canceled, I just said, "oh". He started talking to me about some aspects of his new house. He said "You remember seeing the pictures, right?" I said, "You never showed me any pictures." (He had been insanely secretive about everything during the time he was buying his house - I didn't even know what town it was in.) He said, "Oh, I'll send you some pictures, I'm surprised I didn't already."

That was it. He acted as though he was his old self: friendly, helpful, concerned for my well-being, etc., it's just that he is in love with someone else and never was with me.

So depressing. He will never see me any other way than as a "friend", almost like a kid brother or something.

I could take 'glamor shots' of myself in lingerie and he STILL wouldn't see me that way. How can I change this perception of myself? I feel like I can't - and that is why he left me.

By the way, he set up an "emergency account" for me with 5K. I said, "I don't intend on using it." He said, "use it." I felt I was being bought off. At the bank, he was extremely agitated and paranoid that all mail come to my address (though he wanted it to be a joint account - he could have trusted me enough to give me the money no strings attached). He was paranoid about the bank sending emails to his account and OW finding out. Even though they have only known each other a few months (supposedly), she certainly keeps financial tabs on him.

Sigh, I miss him. I miss my best friend. I miss the life we had. Mostly, I miss spending time together.

well that's all the more reason to GAL and meet new people. We've all been there and you can get thru this.

I'm glad you think I did okay 25years! I tell you, nothing has made me feel so empowered as getting your approval!

There is other news, just as sat down to write this, the phone rang. Guess who it was? It was Ex-P. I was so shocked to hear his voice I said, "Why are you calling?!?" I didn't say it in a mean way, I was just genuinely surprised.

He said he forgot to ask me how my job interview went yesterday. I told him it went great. Then he wanted to offer me some suggestions about my future living situation. I said, "I've already thought about all of those things, but thanks." I was totally upbeat but a little dismissive because frankly, he's the last person who should be offering me advice. He's the cause of all of this and I wish I could have reminded him about that.

Then he went on to say he was worried about me riding my bike tomorrow. (I go back to work to teach three weeks of summer school on Tuesday and we have a preliminary meeting tomorrow and so it is my first time taking my bike and I have to walk down the highway, and ride mostly on main roads, etc.). I said, "Well, would you rather I hitch-hike?" He then proceeded to criticize the route I had chosen and said he was emailing me a better route.

Then I tried to end the conversation while I was still cheerful so I said, "Why don't I let you go." He said, "Why?" I said, "Because its 7:15 and you are still at work." Then he started talking about a mutual friend of ours (really *his* friend...I haven't heard a peep from any of "our" friends since this whole situation began - like its contagious).

I tried to end the conversation again, I said, "I'll check my email for the better route later, so I'll let you get home."

He said, "Please email me when you make it home safely from work tomorrow." I said, "There is no reason to worry and that might be a bit weird since you are off from work tomorrow." (I said that because he told me OW is visiting for a long weekend and he previously told me that I am NOT to ever email him or phone him except when I am POSITIVE he is at work.) He hesitated and said, "You are right, but at least email me on Sunday afternoon" (presumably after OW leaves). I said "Maybe." Then I quickly said goodbye and hung up while I could still be cheery.

Do I email about my long bike commute or leave him hanging?

Frankly, I am a little irked about his "concern." And frankly, I imagine that the DB community cares more about my long bike commute than he does. If he cared so much he could have given me the "emergency" 5k weeks ago and maybe I could have gotten a car to get to work in, but I couldn't afford one so a bike was the best option. I solved the problem as best as I could and I deserve his respect for that. His "concern" is too little too late.

PS. 25years, I love what you say about how I shouldn't say 'when' or expect to see him again. Its just the truth on so many levels. The man has been *SO* inconsistent, has gone totally AWOL on several occasions, and has left me for another woman whose ring he is wearing. Seeing him again is realistically the last thing I should expect or wait for. As painful as that it, I need to accept it. Plus, who knows when he will dip back into "Mr. Resentful mode".

I think you're at a critical juncture here. My thoughts are to not contact him about your bike ride. You want him to start thinking of you again. Let me put it to you this way...if he was really concerned, he would have asked you to contact him regardless of what day it was even if he was with OW.

So he's playing the waffling game. You're better than that and what you did proves it. Great job!