Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Preparing For Big D & STILL Here

Oh, OK -- I thought I had p*ssed you off with my comments last nite. But since I was the only one online at the time, I felt it was important to get thru to you quickly with just how much you needed to . . . well, what we've all said already.

I'll continue to chime in where I feel I have something to contribute.

Starsky

BTM,

I have to admit that when I read your letter to your W, I couldn't believe it. To put it lightly, she's got your nuts in her pocket and she knows it. Why you keep apologizing is a mystery to me. She's bonking another guy, yet you keep apologizing.

That really needs to stop. It's not the example you want to set. What are you going to do to regain your manhood? She's got the control and you're the abused spouse just taking it.

Wow, Bond. Your timing is perfectly ironic.

I just returned from family doctor's office. He is unlike most doctors in that he actually cares. I was there for about 45 mins. He is also STBX's doctor, so has to be somewhat careful of what he says.

He asked for details of our split. He made it clear that our marriage did not end because of one thing I did or many things I didn't do right. It ended, at least equally due to STBX's 8-9 year affair. He told me to stop blaming myself and forgive myself.

I said this earlier, when I actually accept the reality of my/our life for the last 8-9 years and especially the last year and a half, STBX has not been honest with me at all. She has simply been keeping me as plan B or toying with me because I let her.

Our relationship is so poisonous, that there is no reason to be together. We would both need to change too much for it to work. I, at least, know I need to make changes in me. She apparently has no idea.

It [censored] that I lived a lie for so many years. I can't change that. I can only accept it go forward.

One positive note: I sent preliminary financial details to STBX today and she is in full agreement. We should be able to get the legal stuff done quite easily.

Just read his whole thread and see if you still feel that way...

it's not about the G-D- affair for God's sake...

I'm not diminishing the 'rape' aspect. I was just wondering if it really was 'rape' or if she said it was because it was unwanted and he's beat himself up so much that he's convinced himself of that.

My W said I 'raped' her when she was in her fog. I really believed that's what happened for a year before I actually really took a hard look at how things were going and said 'hey wait a minute' that didn't happen. Then when I confronted my W about it, not only did she say that I didn't 'rape' her, but that she didn't even remember saying that.

Irregardless of that, she's been going out with the OM for a very long time. Enough to already be looking at houses. There does come a time when he needs to get his self-respect back and not keep beating himself up. She's already beating him (metaphorically) and he's helping her hold the bat.

I'm not saying that rape is a not a serious issue. It is.

who says she isn't looking at herself? Who says she isn't looking at her choices? Why would she tell HIM of that anyhow? He'd be the last person to know.


It's HIM telling us she isn't doing the work HE thinks she should...(instead of working on himself)


as a former defense attorney I am aware of how "rape" can have its' meaning distorted. I am glad your w validated your "refreshed recall".

I don't get that from this. I get an angry man who forced himself on her and, that is that.

He is the one carrying on with telling the kids without discussing it with her. She didn't go whining about being a victim, or press charges or blackmail for more money.

From where I sit, I say enough about the a....why is that always such a trump card?

To even raise the issue of HER lying about RAPE and NOT about HIM and his "truth telling issues"...

we have no idea what she is working on or what is REALLY going on there.

I simply don't trust his point of view or version of events.

Sorry, but there are major credibility problems here.

So far, his versions are very contradictory, conflicted, shifting, self serving and

blaming...

True she doesn't need to talk to him about her thoughts. Quite honestly the majority of issues in most of the sitches would be solved immediately if couples were able to open up to one another.

I also agree that the A isn't a trump card that she's pulling. As a whole it seemed a little odd to me that a woman who had gone through something as traumatizing as a rape would find another man, then seem to rub her H's nose in her new R. I agree that we only have one side to the issue. Unfortunately that's all we have.

In my W's case, she accused me of a number of things that she honestly claims she can't remember. She sometimes seems horrified at what I told her she did. But if you were to hear the things she said I did during that time, you would have thought I was evil incarnate.

I agree that all sitches should be taken with a grain of salt. But usually people who come here and not be totally honest with the board, don't stick around for 6 years as he has. Just saying.

Hey BTM. I just read your thread. While I think that 25 may be being a bit harsh with you (sorry 25), I do think that she makes very valid points.

You say that you acknowledge and understand the effects of what you did to your W, yet you focus so much on what she is doing to YOU.

Do you really think that she SHOULD forgive you for that?

IMO, you will be a very lucky man if she EVER finds it in her heart to forgive you.

However, that does not mean that you cannot work on forgiving yourself. You must figure out how to do that.

And THAT, is what you should be focused on.

Not on what your W is doing or not doing... and not on whether or not she comes clean on anything that she has done that has contributed to the demise of your M.

25 and Bond - With all due respect, I do think that we are being a bit hard on BTM. He has taken a first important step by acknowledging his wrongdoing. And I see him TRYING to understand the true damage that he has caused. The problem, as I see it, is that he does not know how to make amends... nor does he understand HOW to truly accept responsibility. I don't see him not WANTING to accept responsibility. I think that there is a big difference.

I am NOT diminishing what he did to his W ... not at all. As you all know, I am a criminal defense attorney... and yes BTM, you could have gone to prison for a very long time for that. And there are very few things that are as harmful as violating another person's person the way that you did with your W. That's just the brutal truth.

But doing what I do for a living, I do not think that any single act, albeit even a horrible one, must define a person forever. Atonement is possible. For anyone.

I find that many of my clients do come to a point when they recognize the harm that they have caused and use it to actually become better people.

But they usually don't get there by blaming the victim... or by deflecting their own culpability by pointing out the faults of those around them.

I think that this is what 25 is saying that you are doing BTM.

IMO, you should be focusing on understanding the true harm that you caused... finding forgiveness for yourself... and learning how you can atone for your mistakes by being a better person going forward.

I do not think that you should be focused on what your W is doing or not doing. Like I said before, you will be a very lucky man if she ever forgives you... and even luckier if she ever thinks about R your M.

And btw, your children do NOT need to know anything more about this. It serves absolutely no purpose.

Denver

fair enough guys.

I THINK, but don't know, that your w felt shame afterwards, b/c she stayed with you. Just like battered women who stay m, and don't tell anyone but their closest friends, if any.

Hence her not wanting your kids to know, esp your d. After all, she must worry what message she has sent her. How would you feel if a man did that to your d?

I know your d heard the event, (another reason I believe it happened) but that's not the same as hearing the details...

Hey, I don't want to beat a dead horse, b/c you've heard everyone agree that it was not a good idea to tell the kids. So unless you want to discuss it, I'll drop that.


Like you Denver, I did criminal defense.

A substantial minority came to some type of grips with their crimes,

and some were truly changed. I did see that. (Not most of them, but some...)


But the ones who did change for real, pretty much ALL focussed

on the damage THEY (alone) had done, and how not to do it again.

Usually, but not always, this required a spiritual awakening.

There was never, to the best of my recollection, a changed man who still blamed the victim for anything...



BTM you may want to want to change...I hope so.

But there's so much anger in You...Still...

You have a long road ahead. If you have been here 6 years, you could say that reflects commitment to change

or you could say that's long enough to "get it" by now.

And I'm guessing it's the anger you still have, that prevents you from this.

Yes-Your wife had an affair.

You are not alone on this board with that problem.

I Don't know what came first, the anger or the assault-

but anger is the core issue you have, imo.


So why not just work on that?

Your anger has kept you and your loved ones in pain for too long.