Hey, sorry about the hijacking... sometimes we just get off on tangents around here... but I think you can learn from the side street trips, too.
I have to say I see a lot of positives going on with your situation. The fact that your wife is willing to go to a MC and work with you on issues is very, very positive. I think because most men wait until they hit the wall to find help, it becomes very difficult to have patience while you work through your issues. But as many men can tell you on this board, getting your wife to recognize that there is even a problem to begin with is half the battle.
Make Xmas merry as much as you can with that dreaded flu. Read your SSM, making sure to read the part of the book directed at HDs about their LD spouses, and breathe for a bit. You've got some work ahead of you, but you'll get there!
Hi TG, Sorry to hear about the flu in your house. I hope you are able to avoid getting it.
Good to hear you're looking into MC. I hope the counselor is helpful. I too think there are many positives to your situation.
One thing that might help is to put yourself in the mindset of this is about the marriage. Stay away from the idea of it being about your needs not being met. It is about both of you. You are on the same team. Don't draw a line between you. Consider dropping the LD/HD labels. The labels have a way of setting things up for "taking sides." The next thing you know you've got a tug-of-war going as each of you tries to justify and defend your position. And, of course, the more someone justifies and defends a position the stronger they feel about holding to that position. You're BOTH in a marriage without much/any sex. I expect your wife never planned on this or expected this either. She's just exhausted right now. If you've been having fights about this, you've already got the game going. It needs to stop. The lack of sex and everything surrounding it is your adversary, not your wife. If you haven't been having fights....YEAH!!! It'll be easier to get to the we're-in-this-together approach.
Now for your wife's exhaustion. One reason what you've been doing to lighten the load hasn't been making her feel less exhausted might be because she's not just physically exhausted from the workload. It's a lot and what you're doing is wonderful. The exhaustion, however, is also a mental exhaustion that comes from being surrounded by the sea of raw, uncontrolled emotion and abundant neediness of small children. It's an exhaustion that comes from rarely having a moment to yourself, from never being able to fully concentrate on a task because you're constantly interrupted. It's the exhaustion that comes from not being able to do anything or go anywhere without "making arrangements." There isn't much YOU can do about that. It is the nature of being at home all day long with very young children. It means she needs to find out what rejuvenates her...sleep, time to herself, going out with friends, adult contact during the day, exercise...whatever works for her. It could even be sex, but she has to be able to stay awake long enough to find out . (I used to fall asleep all the time while we'd be trying. My H would wake me up. If I fell asleep again, he figured I really needed to sleep.)
This exhaustion from the neediness of others is another reason why you want to stay away from the "my needs" approach. You want to be different from the kids. No hint of "You're not paying enough attention to ME! MY needs aren't being met." That will only add to her sense of exhaustion. Remember, you're on the same side, in this together, as the two of you figure out how to get everything working during this very difficult phase of marriage now that these new, delightful, needy little people have joined you.
Quote: Other gestures I have tried seem to get met with the "You're just doing this because you want me in bed" response. I know I'm to blame for this since that I have done this in the past, and now she's gunshy.I'm not sure how to get beyond this, without offering more gestures (innocent) and dealing with her rejecting them, until she sees that it's not just to get her in bed. (or somewhere else for that matter).
Use situations like this to turn things back to the team approach. Respond to her directly in a way that says "team" rather than "opposite sides." Be honest and let her know that you believe sex is an important part of a marriage for both partners. That it's not just about you. Acknowledge that you understand that she's not that interested right now, but you'd be interested in knowing how SHE really feels about a sexless marriage for herself. Is a sexless marriage something she really wants? Would SHE like for her interest in sex to return for her own sake and the sake of your relationship, not just for you? Give her an opportunity to think about it from that perspective.
I never get angry with my wife. We have actually had almost no aurguments in 17 years. We never yell at each other. I have NEVER called my wife names or called her fridgid bitch. I have probably been TOO nice. My wife even made the comments that I do not stand up to her, that I avoid conflict. For 2004 and forward, I will express myself, CALMLY. I vent on here when I want to be angry.
I have been reading the book "What women want men to know" and it talks about how women want security in their marriage above all else. I am begining to think that telling my wife earlier that I am not happy with our sex life has made her feel unsure about our marriage, which leads to insecurity, which makes things worse. How can we tell our wives how bad the problem is without screwing up the security problem?
Your previous post about the tennis game was right on the mark. I was trying to agree with you. But I am not trying to make this a power struggle. What I meant is that I currently have NO power in my relationship, as the spouse with the lower desire usually holds most of the power. WHat I am trying to do is find a little power in my situation, to avoid appearing so weak and wimpy (others here have said it turned them off to their husbands). I am so desparate to touch my wife that I initiate all contact, which bothers my wife to some degree. But if I do not touch her, we NEVER touch. I just want to appear more manly to her.
I am begining to understand the theory of that if you want change in your marriage for the better, you need to be willing to risk divorce (got this from books as well as here). Divorce may be the solution, but man, 3 kids will have their lives screwed up, they could lose their home, they certainly would be poorer, they would not see their dad much, and the dad would be very lonely. Lets face it, I have been looking at the 40-50 year old ladies out there, and honestly, how many single, cute, in shape, and highly sexed 40 year old ladies are out there. From what I have read, among couples seeking professional help, 90% are for couples where the wifes desire has plummeted, so I am guessing the vast majority of divorcees are divorced for DESIRE problems.
I don't think you can provide comfortable security, and deal with relational issues. I watched my wonderfully secure and and happy wife drift off to peaceful sleep, on the couch, night after night, while I seethed just short of a rage. I stupidly did this for over a DECADE. Duh! How dumb.
What I should have done is to TELL HER - ALL IS NOT WELL WITH US! It wasn't it isn't now. Even at the risk of thrown food or walk outs, you have to choose to either deal with it, or cry in your beer. If she is important to you, do the right thing for everyone concerned and bring the situation to a head. You do NOT have to make threats. Assure her, that you will not waiver in your devotion to her, as long as she will help work out the problems. At some point, SHE HAS TO AGREE TO WORK WITH YOU. If you have approached her multiple times, and she refuses to address the issue, then you have to resign yourself to that simple fact, and make approprate plans, based on you convictions. If you have to do the later, make sure that she knows, that is your decision.
If she will not work on the problem, then I personally don't think you are under the same obligation to provide her a secure environment. In my relationship, I repeatedly addressed the sex issue, and then allowed the situation to return to the previous status-quo.
She didn't come to bed the other night, instead she chose to sleep on the couch. she was peaceful and comfortable there, probably because she was coming down with a cold. The next morning, I awoke angry. I didn't really realize it, but I was. She asked me what was the matter, and I suprised myself when I blurted out; "Why the hell didn't you sleep in the bed last night?" I think it will be a long while before she sleeps on the couch again. Right or wrong, at least the situation got dealt with before it became an open festering wound again.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Quote: She didn't come to bed the other night, instead she chose to sleep on the couch. she was peaceful and comfortable there, probably because she was coming down with a cold. The next morning, I awoke angry. I didn't really realize it, but I was. She asked me what was the matter, and I suprised myself when I blurted out; "Why the hell didn't you sleep in the bed last night?" I think it will be a long while before she sleeps on the couch again. Right or wrong, at least the situation got dealt with before it became an open festering wound again.
Okay Nope, how should you have done it in a loving way.
PoePad, I don't know that I should have acted any differently. I am not at all sure that my action/reaction was at all inappropriate.
It seems to me that if someone does something to you that they know is highly offensive to you, they either intend harm, they don't care, or they are too damn lazy to do the right thing.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
If I had no children, I would say divorce would be very likely. But since there are 3 young children, I can not do things that will harm them financially or family wise. So I must continue to try and find some solution. I tell you, I can not possible imagine why anyone can be low desire, or even more importantly, why anyone would tolerate being low desire. Sex and physical intimacy are so incredible, why would anyone NOT want it? When your wife becomes ND, I find myself virtually RAPING her at times (but not intentionally). I will give her a massage and sometimes it might lead to sex and most times it leads to sleep. But to have sex under such conditions in many cases is almost Rape. This is not good for either spouse.
Here is something that baffles me about ND women like my wife, if I run my hands over her body while we are in bed, I will slowly work my way to her breasts. Some nights I will get positive response, and most nights she will push my hands away and be angry. So women like this get upset when we move our hands to their genitals or breasts. Now, in my case, I would LOVE to be touched anytime in the genitals or chest, by any women (preferably my wife). So an action that displeases my wife would ALWAYS please me. I guess I have a lot more to learn about women.
Good Luck, keep me informed of any progress you make. I need to here SOMEONE make some progress on curing their ND wives.
Quote: PoePad, I don't know that I should have acted any differently. I am not at all sure that my action/reaction was at all inappropriate...It seems to me that if someone does something to you that they know is highly offensive to you, they either intend harm, they don't care, or they are too damn lazy to do the right thing.-NOPkins-
Nopey, now I see why you are in the sith you are in if you think this way.
It'll be easier to get to the we're-in-this-together approach.
. (I used to fall asleep all the time while we'd be trying. My H would wake me up. If I fell asleep again, he figured I really needed to sleep.)