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From her perspective, yes. I never thought so though. W always thought that I tried to control her using money. In her view, I kept our finances separate and held everything that I did financially for she and SS as a way of making her feel that she should ignore other things that I was not giving her... that she should just consider herself lucky that she had someone providing for her the way that I did.

In retrospect, I can see how she came to feel that way. But I still maintain that it was never my intention to do that.

This subject even came up just a few minutes ago. (minor update)

W texted me this morning to see if I had booked our trip to Disney World. I had told her that I was going to do that yesterday. I responded to her text and told her that I had not booked it. That I was hesitant bc of things being so up in the air with us.

W texted me back saying that there were no guarantees ever, and that she wasn't going to be made to feel like she needed to give me an answer as to 'us' in order for me to take she and SS to Disney World. She told me not to book the trip if that is how I felt and that she wasn't going to 'play games' about it.

See, so even the slightest mention of something that involves money triggers this feeling that I am being controlling by using my money.

I called her a bit later after her text. I explained to her that I was not trying to get any kind of answer from her, that I agreed that there are never guarantees in life, and that I understood that. I told her my hesitancy had to do with me feeling afraid of being hurt. That I would be extremely hurt if we went on this trip and then, when we got back, all of a sudden she told me that she was done... or was back to hanging out with OM. She reiterated that nothing is guaranteed. She said, 'what if we go and we are completely uncomfortable with each other... or what if I move back into the house and 6 months from now we see that it isn't working... what, are we suppose to pretend that everything is fine." She was making the point that anything is possible and that she can't make a promise to me that everything is going to be fine and dandy... whether or not we go on the trip.

I told her that I understood that. I did ask her what the status of her and OM is right now. She said, "there is no status. I told you what I was doing a few weeks ago."

I told her that I trusted that she was telling me the truth.

She then told me, without me asking, that she has not told her music company not to book her on any shows that OM is on, that she wasn't ready to deal with that, but that OM was not on any shows that she currently has booked.

I told her that was fine. That I had been very clear to her where I stand on that subject and that I am done being paranoid about it. That I trust to her to be honest with me. I told her that I really just feel that if she chooses THAT, then I know that I am done, that I will wish her good luck, and that I will walk away. I told her that I am not asking her to tell me every time that she has a show booked with OM, but that I do expect that she is not talking to him and/or seeing him. She said that wasn't happening.

Obviously, I am still paranoid about the subject of OM. I am trying not to bring it up or show that to W though. I felt that I needed to ask about the status today bc it has been 3 weeks since she told me that that was done... and bc I am going to be booking this trip.

W is right. There are no guarantees. Not for a week from now, a month from now, or 10 years from now. That is what is so scary. It kind of makes you want to avoid putting your trust in anyone.

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Denver

Denver - I just read up on your sitch. I can't believe the difference between now and a short time ago. From the "toilet incident" to now...just wow. We so rarely see any good news around here, that it seems almost foreign. It must be so tough for you to not get excited and move too quickly. I am not sure if I ever actually had a chance, but a year ago today, I was only a few days away from going on vacation with STBX to celebrate her birthday. And now today, I am only a few days away from starting divorce conditions. I definitely tried to take too much too soon and scared STBX right into the waiting arms of her Boss. Please remember that every time you are about to move too quickly - not that you have so far. Just a word of caution.

Be proud. But be patient.

BeTheMan - You are absolutely right. I don't know how much of my sitch you are familiar with, but this is the second time that I have been in the position where it seems that I have a real chance of reconciling my M. It first happened in March. Both W and I moved too fast that time around. We talked about W moving back into the house, we talked every day, we hung out almost every day, and we even went to a couple of MC sessions together. And all of this had been after almost 3 months of us barely talking and W dating OM. W got scared and backed away big time at the end of April up until the "OM on the toilet event".

Since then, W have moved back closer towards me and reconciliation. I am trying to take it slow, but you are right, it is VERY difficult. In fact, it is the most difficult thing about any of this if you ask me.

I try to reiterate to my W every time that we do have R talk that I am not trying to pressure her and that I am willing to give her as much time as she needs... albeit with the boundary that I have set.

I meant to mention in my update above that I reiterated my W today that I didn't mean to pressure her, that I am still willing to give her as much time as she needs... albeit with the boundary.

I did tell W that I am not looking for her to give me any 'ultimate' answer right now, but that I felt that we wouldn't get closer to that until we both make the decision that we are committed to working on the M. That the 'ultimate' answer from her that we are both looking for isn't going to just magically appear. That instead, it will come from making a commitment and then the work that we put into it that follows the commitment.

I think that W is waiting for some sign from the heavens or something. I believe that it is merely a choice that she needs to make... either commit and work on the M or don't...

Denver

So CAN you go on the trip and not have expectations? And do you feel like you SHOULD book it so as not to disappoint her and SS?

It does make me wince a bit reading that she is able to accept the trip while expecting you to be able to go without expectations. I get the feeling that that is too much to expect from you at this point. When you told her that you were afraid of being hurt, did she acknowledge that in any way other than saying that there were no guarantees? If not, she still can't see your hurt, only her own, from before OM, during the m.

It seems to me like you're between a rock and a hard place. I'm trying to remember how the potential trip even happened. I think you said in the previous thread that it was planned during your previous reconciliation? If you do book it, can you use the opportunity to make her feel understood?

I don't think you need to be honest about every thing that bothers you (mention of OM). We have to pick our battles. You can be smart and say something (or nothing) that is going to get you where you want to be, or you can respond to everything and drive her away. You will have lots of time to tell her your side later, after she feels heard and understood.

But I am seeing this through the eyes of a W that felt controlled and abused. Other people are seeing it through the eyes of a betrayed spouse and I get their perspective too.

If anyone out here can tell us how to make that happen, many of us would be so lucky.

I need that answer in my sitch too; the limbo waiting game is the worse.

Then again, think of how far it has turned around to get to this point.

Stay focused on the goal.

It will be different for each of you and for each situation.

I had brought it up as a possibility in our previous reconciliation.. or whatever you want to call it. It got dropped for more than a month. The W brought it up out of the blue a week ago.

I am going to book it... go on the trip... try to make her feel understood as you suggest... and try to make it a great trip for all of us.

Thanks Toon!

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Denver

Denver,

I can see how much you want this to work out and how hard you're trying to walk a very fine line with your wife,, staying connected while giving her space. I have some idea how hard this can be.

When I say "Don't think of a stop sign." What do you think of? Almost everyone thinks of the sign. When you repeatedly tell your wife you don't want to pressure her, I don't imagine that's having the reassuring effect you think it is. Just food for thought.

Since you're booking the trip, is it possible to have some separate excursions while you're there?

I can see how it would be pretty difficult to maintain the fine-balance you're walking.

Then she wouldn't feel smothered, and you wouldn't be second-guessing every thing you say. That would be pretty tiring, and maybe impossible.

I agree with the "no pressure" comments. Don't think of a stop sign!

Have you read The Way of the Superior Man, by David Deida? H read it recently, read some to me, and I'm going to read it this week while H is away. H got a lot out of it.

Parts of it sound pretty x-rated, so don't pick it up if that would be disturbing, but philisophically-speaking, it sounds quite enlightening.

It sounds like it's all about the "masculine" and the "feminine". H said that there was a chapter regarding what happens to the W when she doesn't feel supported in the R. He said that part of it explained my response to a T.

I think our son(24) even read it (he's a deep kid). I know that H wanted him to.