Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Piecing Our Marriage Back Together Again Harrier

Jack or others - the latest update (there is a lot here)

She is still adamant on living part for a while. I am less than convinced

So I came home yesterday and my wife says that she was bummed out all afternoon. This is really affecting her a lot. So she rebounds and we have a fun night. It's weird things feel 100% great like there is no strain or pressure.

So I put our oldest to bed and head downs stairs. I do some cleanup in the kitchen then go to the living room. She is sitting in the chair and looks tired/upset. She then starts talking and totally breaks down. (mind you she doesn't do this a lot). She said she's really scared that if we separate "something will happen" that will cause her to lose me forever.

She worried that I would become so angry at her, that we would divorce and never have any kind of relationship again other than our kids mom and dad. She's also worried that things would happen that would make me not be the best father to our boys. She was really crying. But on the other hand she feels like we have to do this to give us the best chance and that we have tried everything. I disagree to an extent that we have tried everything, but I say I see her point.

She also said yesterday morning and evening was the best she felt about me and us in months.

I said my fear is the same as yours - losing you. I say ,"you'd get used to not having me around." She didn't think that would happen because in spite of everything she needs me and more than just a helper. This is one of the few times she's said this to me directly. Of course, I get emotional and I see her start to get defensive. So I change tact. I stay calm and talk about how it would work.

The conversation kind changes after than. We talk about some specifics. I would be the one moving out. She still wants to spend as much time as possible. Like dinner every night, I still put one of the kids to bed, I stay after to talk or just leave and we still do stuff as a family on weekends. She wants me to get a decent apartment so I'll be 'happy" with it and the kids will be safe there. She doesn't want to put a time frame on it. I say that I think we'd probably need at least one night without contact. She says "why?" Personally, I think she's living in an dream world. She has a fantasy on how it would go and the reality would be so much harder and potentially painful.

She also said that she is glad she'd be doing this with me because we work well together on a number of things throughout our marriage. We actually lived apart for 10 months our second year of marriage because of school and work. It wasn't by choice.

I think if we did we could come to an understanding on most things - specifically no outside dating or outside sex, time together including time for just us, and counseling. I know she is more than willing to do all this. However, the thing screaming at me in the face is that the success rate on this isn't very good. 0f course, I my worst dark fear is that she just secretly wants this to screw her mentor with less guilt and have time to do it. (I know that could be happening now, but something else happened that has me worried.) But she still did say she was 100% committed to the married.

The thing on the mentor is that she has an idea of how I feel. She has told me that she doesn't expect me to trust her. She said she knows why I would check. She knows that any contact hurts me, but she can't not have contact. She has reduces her contact next to nothing. She quit working for him one day a week, quite calling him/texting him, quit seeing him. She even quit working on something that was a great opportunity for on just to limit contact and I know it was hard on her. Think psych testing during brain surgery. She'd do it if he wasn't involved.
She also lets me know when she has major contact with him.

EXCEPT for work related items - only her, him me and her friend know of the EA. The OM works very closely with my W's Supervisor and a guy who is my W's mentor. (All three guys are really good friends to boot, go on week long fishing trips, play handball etc.) it would look extremely weird if she avoided talking to him. (I know making excuses for her.) her field is extremely close-knit.

Also she has a big issue with privacy. I grew up with basically no privacy. Her family was extremely guarded and viewed an invasion of personal privacy as a huge issue. Like her mom would never read her diary, even it it was out in the open.

Unfortunately, I did somethings to cause her to be more extreme about this. In fact I found out she "liked" me by reading a note in her bag that she had wrote to a friend. I've also done some worse things as well like film us ML without her knowing. Only I saw it. This was early on and she found out and it really hurt her. (I don't defend these, I'm pretty ashamed of it).

So my hot button is is contact with OM. The only way I find out is to invade her privacy (as she see it) which is her hot button issue.. See the issue? But more to the point even if she provided full access to her email and phone (her email is tricky because it has patient info think HIPPA). She still points out correctly, that I'd just think that she's had another email account or was going more underground.

So the real issue is trust and that takes time. I has gotten better and it's slowly being built back up, but it's not there completely.


She told me that overall she is committed to the marriage and think there could be a positive outcome. She is willing to work too. I think things could workout, I really do. I thought our marriage was awesome before this and I think it can be better and we both get what we need.

But I don't know if the separation is the way to go. My concerns are that she sees this as a last-ditch effort and if this doesn't work she will give up on the marriage, that she sees this as the only way to fix things and if we don't do it we are doomed, if there are any hiccups in the separation that will move her toward divorce.

But the rewards could be great if it worked out well. I'm going to consult with our MC at my appointment.

I'd like to add I don't even know if we are piecing anymore. I mean we both are really committed to working on the marriage. yet we do things that cause the other pain.

I think if you're both committed that those things will happen less and less.

Digesting what you wrote for now.

Although...never look at satistics when dealing with your relationship. Cold hard logic tracking red lava emotion? They do not play well together.

Adamant is a very hard word to argue with. It is hard to convince someone who is adamant about something to change their mind.

So saying, what she is describing:



That really doesn't sound like living apart. That sounds like...a fluffy version of a fantasy life.



Why?

She is the one who wants to sperate. This is the one thing that always baffles me.

Sometimes we can be TOO accomodating.

There is no hard reality if she isn't the one who has to move, from the comfort of her home.

Not arguing with you Harrier, seriously, I just never will understand this.

It's like...getting a divorce to make them love you again...it's a twisted thinking to me.

Her choice is impacting your life. Her choice shouldn't ONLY impact your life.

"You're not happy? Ok...well...have you found an apartment yet? Wait...ohhh everything BUT me makes you happy...I guess I'll look for an apartment."

Right or wrong? I really don't know. It is one of those things that baffles me.




Not to put too fine a point on it.

If I recall, he was on a fishing trip? It was a Saturday?

It was work related? It was important? She contacted him?

I TOTALLY get why your warning bells went off Harrier. So should she.




100%.

Crystal clear.

Are you invading her privacy?

Yup. At least to her, and that is all that matters with that.

Are you worried about contact with the OM with just cause?

Ummmm...yup! At least to you and that is all that matters with that.

You BOTH need to compromise.

Right now? Her first. Later, you give in.

She should be willing and able to swallow her privacy issues and later you should be able to swallow your OM issues.

When you do come across something about the OM...do not jump to an immediate conclusion. Talk to her rationally about it.





uhhh, yeah. Stop that. : )

I get the feeling you offer her easy outs of questions by prompting her possible answers.

Try to stop doing that too.

example:

Why do you think we should seperate? Is it because, you want space? you want to grow fond of me? You like not hearing me snore?


replace with:
Why do you think we should seperate?


Just as an example.


Harrier, you have a bit of time before all this goes down.



Stop causing her pain, and stop taking the things she does as slights. Maybe there are, the obvious ones likely are, the ones you have to think about are probablly not.

Who knows...maybe she won't be so adamant about getting different places.

my thoughts. I thank you I know this is something totally volunteer with you.



Agreed





She is more than willing to move out. She even said it would probably be better. But this really has more to do with kid issues than either of us. Now you might still say that's accommodating but our youngest is still just 18 months.



I'm not sure he was on the trip, but my wife works in a hospital. So things can happen 24/7/365. When she said it was work related I believe her.



She told me that I am free to look, the issue is bringing it up to her. I think I need to find a way to bring it up to her, rationally. as you suggest.



Actually, I don't do this. But I will watch it to see if I'm wrong.




I'm doing the hard work on this. I think it will be easier as time goes on. It's me working to change my thinking to the positive.

A few adds. She was also "adamant" about the divorce last november. So I don't know if this will stick as well. It took her about 3 weeks to back off this.

When I came home today. she looked pretty tired and worn out. She volunteered me that she had talked to the OM today, about a work thing and he dressed her down pretty good. "unfairly" in her terms. I don't know what to make of that.

NOT a 2x4.

Your actions and how it affected you the other day say otherwise.

Man I'm having a rough day.

First of all I had a horrible dream that my wife just decided to pull the plug on our marriage with basically no warning (sound familiar). I woke up from it very depressed. Even though it was a dream the feelings were very real.

last night and this morning brought out 2 strange experience that have sent me reeling a bit.

Okay, since Monday. I have not brought up the separation and neither has she. Tuesday and Wednesday were pretty good interactions actually. I could sense that she really felt comfortable around me.

So she works later on Wednesdays. She came home around 9. she pops into my sons room where I'm putting him to bed and says, "I'm going into our room, but if you want to come in for a bit you can." Okay

I put our son to bed then go into the room and she is laying in bed. We talk for a bit, I've been having a lot of kid duty over the past couple days. She thanks me for it and says she will get up with them tomorrow, etc. She then says she is tried and going to bed. I say Okay.

I go over to her and bend down for a kiss and hug. She turns away from the kiss and hugs me. This morning we are at our cars ready to leave. - Same damn thing - she turns her head to avoid the kiss.

I know you shouldn't over-analyze small things but dammit they were pretty telling at lease cause a reaction in me. WTF is going on? i want to ask. The first one I kinda shrugged off, the second one is the start of a pattern.

I am hurt, sad and mad now. I'm mad at myself for Saturday. I'm hurt by the apparent rejection and sad for the future. I will rebound today, but It's tough right now.

I really just want to call her and talk about things - how she feels about me? how she feels about the M? is still on board for S? is she hopeful? discouraged? what? what? what? But I know that just a horrible idea. I hate being unsettled, but I would also hate the answers I fear.

how did I end up here....again. late march to early April was how it could be? I feel I've wasted a year and half of our marriage and it just keeps going and going. I don't know how to stop it other than get off the ride (M)

it's just one of those days. Where I feel hopeless and frankly lost the ability to give a cr@p about anything.

Well the talk @ lunch happened.

I didn't bring it up. My W called me like she normally does. I could tell right away she was in thinking/talking mode.

She said she felt stuck, in limbo. she said she feels like the marriage we have right now isn't a good one. too much reaction from both of us. She the only time she felt positive was during our talk about the separation because it felt like we were working together on moving forward. We were doing something... not letting things happen.

I told her about the divorce bomb dream, she said "Well that's not the case."

I think she is very committed to the separation idea...almost too committed. She also said every now and then it will hit her what it means. She fears that she could damage our relationship permanently, she fears the kids will be adversely affected. but she also said that we have to do something. She said she is committed to working on the M and hopeful ,but only with S.

She said she has to come to terms with the idea that we will never have an M like we had. I agree, but it's hard for me because before this our M was great. she did say that we could build a better M.

We are going to have another talk on Friday night to deal with logistics and boundaries, to which she agreed. For example no dating other people.

I don't know if this can work or it's just a slow road to divorce. When I think about the later I am heart-broken.

All because I tried to look at her stupid phone.

the problem is some of the things she said are some of the things they say in newcomers are some of the All-Time Cheaters Lies. Like she said 'I don't want to date anyone.' Say that over there and you will get slapped with a "that's part of the cheaters script."

I used to feel good that my W and were still in the same house. Now that will change. I feel this is a GIANT step backwards.
I can't see the positives, I can't see the hope.

Can you be separated and still piece?

I haven't seen anyone get back together after a separation UNLESS it's understood that the separation is an attempt to heal the marriage. If not, it becomes too easy to become comfortable and all you're doing is avoiding the issues. The separation becomes a way of running away from the problem.

"the only time she felt positive was during our talk about the separation because it felt like we were working together on moving forward."

Total BS talk. She could have also just as easily have felt you were working together at moving forward with the marriage also. She should have understood your insecurities about the OM and not have gotten upset. Likewise, if you were feeling insecure, you should have just told her your concerns and not just checked her log.

If both of you are separating just for the sake of doing it, it won't work.

Bond, Thanks for the input.

The point of the potential separation is to heal the marriage. It's not to just avoid issues. We have talked about this. I told her that we need to have MC during the separation and she agreed. I've been reading up on it and I know what ways it works and what ways it doesn't

I agree on the BS part. I told her that we "got lazy" over the last month and she saw that as some kind of attack on her efforts. I would like to see us try a few more things before separation, but she thinks we have tried everything.

I wish I knew someone here or in IRL who went through a successful "healing separation" that could help me gain insight. I am talking to our MC about this next week.