by training I'm a L so I'm going to go back to your first post (here on this thread) b/c a few things really hit me later...
I'm going to take "her" point of view and ask some questions you do not have to answer, to me. But you ought to ask them of yourself, at least. I think they might help you see another point of view, like hers.
So I'll go by what you posted...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Quick recap.....M for 23 years T for 25 years...five girls....She was a stay at home home and I worked my tail off so she could homeschool This struck me hard. The irony of your wording...See, I've worked outside the home as a professional who got promotions, bonuses, accolades and pats on the back for a job well done. (Which sahm do NOT get) At my outside work, I ate my food when it was still warm, and I was not vomitted upon, or facing non stop demands of oft times unreasonable people-toddlers, for instance.
yes I have also worked full time and had kids, AND I've been a sahm with "only" 3 kids. I never homeschooled b/c of the need I had for a break in the day.
By far the hardest experience for me in terms of unrelenting demands of me, was the sahm role. So When you wrote that you worked your tail off SO she could stay at home AND homeschool FIVE GIRLS".??!!?!?!?!
Um, yeah, I had a major disconnect. Wow...you sure see your marital history in a self-serving way. I know ZERO women who would describe your position, as the harder one... that's not an attack on you, but the bias you have in reviewing things is probably not helping you save your m. Just some food for thought.
..15 years ago I had a short lived A....I swore I would take it to my grave... The way you describe your cheating here (and later in the thread) minimizes it. It gets2-3 lines. Her A gets far more attention & seems worse in your eyes, b/c she's open about it, and he means more to her than yours did to you. Does that really make sense to you? I see how it would feel more threatening to you, but it's not "more wrong", is it?
Plus-You cheated on her while she was carrying your child ...OUCH!! b/c you didn't think you were getting enough attention...
Um, there's no easy way to say this, but that's just incredibly selfish, immature and unfair. I have a feeling you were not paying more attention to her while she went through the trials and tribulations of yet another pregnancy, and labor/childbirth, and caring for the other small ones at home. Did you buy her gifts and tell her she looked beautiful carrying your babies and thank her for all the work and risk she was doing for the family? Did you compliment her on a job so well done and so important...often?
Unfortunately you seemed to think her condition explained your need for an A, or justified it, but see, to most women that's a factor making the cheating worse, not more understandable but less. You cheated when she was most vulnerable. Just some more food for thought...
Our M was ok but not great. Meaning?
6 years ago she found out.
Another really fast skim thru...how'd she find out? Was she publicly humiliated?
I packed up and bought her a house in the country and moved her trying to make it work Since I don't see the connection between her discovery/pain of betrayal, and you buying "her" a house in the country, or "trying to make it work"...
I can only assume you thought a purchase and geographic change = working on the m....?? really? What would SHE say the country house was about? What would SHE say about the A and your way of handling the discovery?
Here is my problem...I give her a pretty good chunk of cash each month for the girls and her...She works a job and her hours fluxuate some. So she earns money too? (When does she have time?) Does all of her money go into an account only she will use for herself? Or does it go to paying for where she lives and caring for the girls? You have to be more objective when you look at facts. I know it hurts, but it's not helping you save the m to keep seeing things like you are a victim. In her eyes, you are not the "aggrieved party". Remember that.
Ya know, in some places, since she has 5/6 of the family in one place, it's only natural that "She" gets a "pretty good chunk of cash"...
She informed me that her man has to go back across the water to Iraq...here is where I am having a bad time. She took a leave of absence to be with him until he leaves. She told me that I was to support her and the girls because she will not get a check for two more weeks.I am freaking mad that she did this. Mad that she took the leave? Or mad that she wants some extra money? I read that a few times and I couldn't help but notice that the way you worded it, it's a little unclear. I'm guessing it's hurt/jealousy, which makes sense. Ouch... I get that.
You also said the girls "somehow" took her side. That's not about her or them as much as it is about how you are interacting with them. Since I hear so much anger in your words, I can only assume you are showing it to them. Whether you think you are right or not (and we know you do), ask yourself if you want to be "right" or "happy". Be clear about that. Lose the anger, like I said earlier...it backfires on the lbser.
She wanted to spend time with him and use more than the money I give her becasue of the leave of absence. No from what I gather on here there is a thin line between my girls and her. I know that she will not have any money for food or gas. She earns money too, so stop talking as if it all comes from you AND she's caring for the girls, which you would never be able to do on your own without spending a fortune if she were not around. Not to mention what you'd pay if they were in private school, which she essentially provided to five girls. I have no idea how she has any energy for work and a R and the girls, but she's managing. She has much higher costs than you, and that is NOT about OM...that's about YOUR DAUGHTERS... And you "KNOW that she will not have enough money for FOOD"....Um, hello? That's the answer. You can try to disguise this as cake eating and some "boundary" all you want. But it's punishment from you, and it's NOT attractive and it's NOT fair to your girls.
Do I draw the line and tell her to figure it out or do I just give her more money. Its not like I have it in buckets. OM has income so you are not subsidizing him. Plus, this is not a life changing amount for you. It's for 2 weeks? Do you really want to fight this battle?
Second thing is that she was crying that he was going to a bad area. It's inappropriate for her to cry to you about this. Agreed. You don't have to listen. Next time, (if there is one), you can say "As you can imagine w, I'm not comfortable talking to you about him, so I have to get off the phone now."
I have been in law enforcment for 27 years and put a weapon on every night and not one tear was ever shed for me and this hurts me. You don't know that she never worried about you. I am positive she did and I don't even know her. Don't assume or mind read. It is counter productive.
Is this part of the MLC or WAS syndrome. Irrelevant. Your approach is the same.
We go days without speaking and only a few texts. It was her birthday today and she told me never to metion her age again or how young her B is.. So don't. Why would you ever bring him up?
.... She did bring up the D the other day and I took a line right off of here. I said W i do not want a D but I can't stop you from getting one. I will not assist you in anyway shape or form. She just hung up on me. No matter. Your answer was spot on. It might evolve later, but for now, that's it.
Someone on here read somewhere that if she still gets upset than she is not yet done... Well It means she's not indifferent.
I do want to save this M and become a stronger married couple once again, or even better than before. Any help would be great. Scott
Focus on what you can change in yourself ONLY. And be a little bit braver emotionally (I know you are in your job) about your role in all this.
She didn't snap and go nuts. Your d's are "on her side". They should not have to pick sides but it also means you have more work to do on you, than you seem to realize. AND That's GOOD NEWS...here's why.
If I were to go to mc again, like we did 5-6 years ago, most of the mc's said "oh, your h doesn't want to be married...see ya!"....WTH? So there's nothing for ME TO DO? I just have to cope with his determination to leave...?
I would MUCH RATHER BE "THE PROBLEM"...b/c I CAN WORK ON ME!! I am fixable!!
Imagine a person who has been a perfect spouse (IF that even exists) is told that their WAS still wants out, and thats that...well, that stinks.
It means nothing you do will matter. But in your case I feel there's a lot of stuff you can work on. Most people in your profession have "issues" of cynicism and negativity and alcohol and adultery. It can be a real drag to be around people like that. I did criminal law for 3 years and I know the feeling.
When I have time I'll see if you posted elsewhere about that b/c maybe you already identified those issues and are working on them.
I'll also look for your 180's, which I don't recall seeing, and your PMA (Positive mental attitude is sorely lacking still) and GAL.
Til then, When in doubt about a course of action or comment, first ask what your goal is, and then ask if it's going to get you closer to the goal or farther form it.
And look inside too. Ask yourself if you are coming from a place of honor and dignity, or the desire to punish - under the guise of "teaching her the consequences/lesson"...B/c remember, it is NOT YOUR JOB to do that. Life will. It already is.
Good luck, keep posting
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
25 thanks for the response...I will try to post and answer for your questions or observations...the best as I can....I will clarify as I can and please keep asking until you know me...
First of all about me working my tail off so she could stay at home and homeschool my girls....I do know that she worked very hard at this....It was a decision that bit me in my rear....and this is why. She always wanted to be a stay at home mother. She has the perfect mindset for it....In fact I will tell you how hard she worked...My oldest got a great scholarship to college at 16 and just graduated at 20 with two degree's....Boy my W worked hard at maiking our d's great people.....So what I meant by it coming back on me is this.....I worked and excelled very much in my job....my wife worked and excelled in her job....Because of this our relationship suffered....I ask myself all the time why did I not put the effort into my M that I put into my work. I also want to ask my W the same thing.
And my A....yes I did have it while she was having babies....and yes I felt that I was at the bottom rung of the ladder. I felt that I was nothing to her. I felt like we were in a rut. I did her and my daughter's wrong. I knew it was wrong when I did it and have regretted it ever since. I did and didnot buy gifts and tell her how beautiful she was. I have discussed this with my C to death....I came from a family where my father gave my mother a washing machine on her birthday. I think I have become my father and I did not want that to happen. I watched him bring home a paycheck every week and thought that was all I was supposed to do.....Where as my W's father came home everyday took the kids out , took his W out and had nothing but family time. These are things that I have learned about myself and have corrected them....When you listen to MWD and she says that telling your spouse a million times to stop being hateful....and they don't change...but the day you tell them you want a D...thats the 2x4 to the head or the wake up call...It seems that's how it happened to me....My W has seen the changes and even has said so....but it was to little to late.
Now in 1998 I had the A it was short lived....and ended just a couple of months later.....In 2005 which was 7 years later it came back to haunt me....basicly I got snarled up into the D of the OW. So I had to tell my W...She was going to get summones to there D. Anyway to me it happened 7 years ago but to my W it was fresh....She really did not know how to act and I was going off the deep end, trying to convince her not to throw me up.....here is where I screwed up....I told her that I would step up to the plate and make it up to her every day until we die.....but since it was so long ago for me.....I just blew it off and she would cry in the closet...I did not find that out till last year....she told me later that it was then that the M started a slow painfull death.
Now for the house in the country....She during this time wanted to move but I was fighting it. But when everything came out I said lets go and we did move....We spent alot of time rennoavting this house and everything seemed to be getting better. I even went one step farther and retired from my city job and got a job in the country....SO I would never have to go back and we could start fresh.
Well in moving our expenses increased and I had to start working even more.....Then she was starting to take camping trips with the girls....I guess I could have went and now I know I should have....but without me working she would have not had the money to go......So on one of these trips she met the OM.....it was down hill for me then.
Now the money part.....I do think that I should not have even brought this up with her....I feel that she is just disrespecting me....The only reason she ever got a part time job was to pay for my oldest daughters college expenses...fun stuff I mean....but now she has to work to survive....I am not complaining or maybe I am and you guys can beat me till it hurts. I read on one thread that talking on hear was saving the spouse from yelling to the WAS...maybe that's what I need. So know I have a W that needs to work full time. If we could work this out she would not have to work at all.....
Here is another gripe or bitch from me. We lost our house to foreclosure. She does not even care....but in losing our house she impeded our ability to get college money for the rest of our four girls..... now I ask you fine people...what is she thinking....in taking this path our girls might not get to go to college......and yet she worked so hard to teach them...She has a masters degree and is very smart.
Plus I do not understand her reasoning....I do understand that she says that she does not want to be married to me anymore. I do understand that she has found whatever in the OM....He is 13 years younger and does not make alot of money....She has no forward thinking at this point....She knows that I can provide everything she needs till the day she dies....She has told me she still finds me attractive and all of the other stuff....When an if she realizes what she has done then what....sorry for the long post ......Scott
Scott, I'm not ignoring you but (I am ignoring my family so...) I'll post more later
Thanks for addressing my questions. We'll be in touch. There IS hope, so don't give up. FWIW, 5 years ago I'd have given my m about a 10% chance of lasting....hey, things can get better.
But yes, I had to look at some not so beautiful things...in me. But I mean it when I say, Thank GOD --b/c I can fix ME...know what I mean?...
later,
j
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Starksy I did go back and reread my old posts and the advice I was given....I was week and thought hey if I give in and giver her money and be nice...things might work out.....but that was not the case....Its ironic...my roommate was going through a similar situation with her boyfriend and another woman...I told her about this site and what advice is given....She followed what I told her to a tee and they are back together now stronger than ever it seems....She is constantly telling me to listen to these people on this board....I try and try but always put my foot in my mouth....Things are starting to look better for me as each day does in fact get easier to get through....I guess I am in the process of detaching and finding myself all at the same time....So know I will be journaling and keeping everyone up to date....So I can get the advice sooner than later....Funny thing is I lurk and read on here just about 24 hours a day....I see the baby steps some sitches have and the pain others do.....Everyone of us who is the LBS.....has the same range of emotions...trouble with me is I think my head must be made out of a substance that nothing can get through to....its almost as tough as the wall my WAW has put up....But I promise that I will listen very carefully to this advice from now on...So one way or another Scott will be ok......keep it coming folks
It's confusing to us and you for one, and it also tends to make it look as if you are shopping for answers you like better than the ones you get the first time around. Stay the course with some consistency. Start practicing that trait [b]here. NOW.[/b]
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Starksy I did go back and reread my old posts and the advice I was given....I was week and thought [b]hey if I give in and giver her money and be nice...things might work out....[/b] So, not a gift so much as a trade with expectations...LOSE THOSE ASAP
.but that was not the case....Its ironic...my roommate was going through a similar situation with her boyfriend and another woman...I told her about this site and what advice is given....She followed what I told her to a tee and they are back together now stronger than ever it seems....She is constantly telling me to listen to these people on this board.... Ironic? Maybe a little, but also just sort of hypocritical.
I try and try but always put my foot in my mouth....
DEFINE "TRY AND TRY"....what is it to you, to "TRY & TRY"... something?
Things are starting to look better for me as each day does in fact get easier to get through....I guess I am in the process of detaching and finding myself all at the same time....So know I will be journaling and keeping everyone up to date....
So I can get the advice sooner than later....Funny thing is I lurk and read on here just about 24 hours a day You say the word "advice?" and "Thoughts?" a lot. We give them to you. You don't follow them. Then you come here and refer to something you call "trying" and then you come back here, and say you failed, again...
....I see the baby steps some sitches have and the pain others do.....Everyone of us who is the LBS.....has the same range of emotions...trouble with me is I think my head must be made out of a substance that nothing can get through to.... You are not maritally disabled. The trouble is you don't follow through. You don't want it enough or you are just too stuck/stubborn selfish to change and you'd rather "read the DB boards 24/7" than implement the changes in real life.
That's another way of saying you don't want it enough, or you are just really lazy but I have a hard time saying "lazy" to a guy who worked at his job so hard. SO I go back to , you don't want it enough. Unless emotionally you are lazy, and that would just be a tragedy for all of your women.
They won't have a role model of a man who puts real effort into his family life.
its almost as tough as the wall my WAW has put up
Time + Your Changes = Her believing they are real changes.
....But I promise that I will listen very carefully to this advice from now on...So one way or another Scott will be ok......keep it coming folks
You make a lot of promises. This is not about you promising US...we are not in your family and we lose nothing but time, when you backslide repeatedly.
This is your life and family. You are losing them and you are playing hapless/clueless victim...
But we know better.
Down deep you think "why bother? It's easier to start fresh w/someone new I won't have to come from behind to compensate..etc."
That has surface appeal but it's flawed. Why? B/c first off-your R problems absolutely will repeat so you'll be in the same boat with a OW.
Second, you'll lose more than your present w. You'll lose 5 women, the daughters you say you love. The ones you'd probably kill or die for, and yet....
and yet you won't change even when the changes are spelled out for you...
Do it. And if you won't then at least don't keep saying you will "this time" or keep saying "advice?" b/c you get advice! Some darn good advice... This is not easy but it is also NOT complicated. Quite simple, really. Don't make it so hard.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Received a call yesterday from my W. She was sounded real upset. I asked her what was wrong. Although I know OM left. I told her that I was sorry that she was sad. Then she started in on me about money again. I have given all I have and she still wants more. I told her I borrowed the money that I gace her. She thinks that I am hiding it. So then she gets real mad and says that I am supposed to meet her at her S house next week to sign a separation agreement and then I am supposed to file. I told her that I was not going to assist her in any way...She got even angrier at me and hung up on me.
Now today D17 calls and tells me they need money for gas and food. So I transfer some money into her account. About an hour after that my W calls and is talking real low but not in mad way. She says that she is scared/worried that she has no money and I don't get paid until next week. The old me would have told her that you made your bed now lie in it, however I just validated her and told her that I would try to get some more $$ to put into her account till payday. Now as some of you have written on here, is this a battle that I want to fight...my answer is no....however once we get a signed agreement....I know she will still not have enough....am I still not to fight this battle and just give in....Does that not make me weak....I was being nice with giving her way more than we agreed on....but is she not try to cake eat....Where do I draw the line...its seems right now that if I give her a D and everything she wants...it will not be enough......So I ask again...where would you all draw the line....
