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AJM,

I've read this thread now and just wanted to give you my "gestalt". I have ONE question though...

What has he SAID about your M? He wants you to stick around BUT he's not sure what he wants vis a vis the marriage and....??

My take on it is that he openly states he's on the fence, unsure of what he wants and also is dating the OW but maybe wants out, and yada yada...??

Is that what's going on with him vis a vis you guys? (for the sake of this post, I will assume I am accurate there. IF not, then I leave it to you to separate the chaff from the wheat).

You & I have discussed forgiveness at length. But I don't see that as the problem at this point.

Right now, he's says he's on the fence, but he's not.

He's with OW.

He would prefer you stay around b/c it's easier on him....

And that is how I see it. Sorry.

Your approach has succeeded in making your time together better and that IS good.

I agree with you being upbeat and pleasant. But I think a WHOLE LOT more mystery and the idea of him losing you, soon, has to come up, if you want more movement from him...

and I don't just mean moving geographically.

Basically, if moving will make your life easier, and you can avoid a big time commitment there (like having to buy a house or something crazy)

I'd plan on it. Let him know. He'll have a month (=the 12th month??) to man up.


If he cannot do that, you have your answer for now.

I think he has to see what life is like without you guys at his beck and call for his family fix. I think that MAY mean you have to go, for him to get it, IF & Only IF he can get it...

After my h moved to the tundra and took his boards, finally finishing the task he had decided was the most important thing in the world,

that NIGHT he called and asked when we'd join him...wth??

Point is, til then, til he was literally gone that far away and only after the boards whcih took weeks,

I don't know that h ever realized we weren't there...I mean at least figuratively he didn't. But I almost believe he looked around and said "where is everyone? Oh yeah, they're 3000 miles away b/c I left them there....and I'm lonely...I MISS THEM..."ooops.

Your h doesn't really get to miss you guys yet. He can come over and get his fix. (When he is there, it's important that you be as pleasant as possible b/c you want him to remember THAT when you are gone).


And you feel stuck b/c you are not geographically committed to where you are....true?? Well That stinks for you and you've had this problem for a year??

I think you have a deadline coming. How much of a hassle logistically speaking and financially, will it be for you to go there IF h wants you back?

And can HE join you where you go? OR would it be you returning to where he is?

FWIW, no discussion of how he wants to break up with OW, etc is relevant as long as he's with her.

I would not be interested in hearing any updates on OW until if and when they are real. For now, they're not.

That is all that matters. They are together...period.

If he brings their R up again as if he's telling you their problems or asking for advice, refer him elsewhere b/c you don't have anything to aid him with

...she's OW and you are a wife...it's a bit much for him to say a word about her, until that word is "over"....imo

Don't bother snooping either. What matters would be when HE presents the proof to you that she's gone and he's ready. Those are not boundaries you have to tell him. They're obvious realities. Don't bother looking controlling or critical; you're simply self respecting. This isn't really debatable is it?
The boundaries you set, imo, are internal ones for you.

What if you assume you are leaving and radiate that, and the belief that you are going to be fine?

BELIEVE THAT HE IS LOSING MORE THAN YOU...B/C IT IS TRUE...

AS YOU RADIATE THAT BELIEF, AND FEEL REGRET FOR HIS PENDING LOSS, IT'LL SINK IN....

and You actually are going to be better off.

Yes I believe that. You remind me of my older sister (in a good way!!) whose h left her with 3 kids after 22 years of m. He was funny and smart but a definite taker and she's a giver. Pregnant and always working full time as a nurse, she put him thru law school, where he had his first A....nice...

When he finally left her, my sisters and I knew INSIDE (could not tell her b/c she was so sad) that older sister would someday be happier b/c her h was a taker. We just KNEW she'd be better off at SOME Point....I predicted 2 years, my other sisters said 1 or 3....but her ex h was never going to be a content person.

She, otoh, is an innately happy woman, with a beautiful spirit, but h was sucking out her happiness and she was so hurt...

so he leaves and goes off with OW#1 and when they break up after 5 months, her ex h tells HER, my sister that he "gets" how hurt she was when he left b/c now HE is hurt b/c his gf of 5 months broke up with him....yes, he wanted MY Sister to comfort HIM!!

2 years pass and he's with OW#2or 3....& my sister finally begins to date.

She meets a giver!! She gets engaged to this giver/h#2 who worships the ground she walks on. Makes every effort for her and clearly makes her THE priority in his life...

EX H calls sister and says he now "gets it" and effed up big time and was wrong and blah blah blah...this is ONE MONTH before my sister's wedding to h#2.

She said "Thanks for telling me that..." and she married h#2 and is truly, genuinely happier than she possibly could have been with h#1.

I ask her if she was tempted to return to exh. She says she will always feel "sad about the kids and their pain of div, as for actual marriage, she'd never go back to ex h now that she knows what it's like to be THE priority in someone else's life..." meaning her new h....

I don't think h#1 could have learned the lessons he learned, without losing my sister and finding out that HE is a taker, and not that many givers are out there...Later on, her Exh remarried someone HE describes as "high maintenance"....(can you say "karma"?)

Her exh did her a favor and we knew it at the time but could not say it....

After reading about how your h was and to an extent still is...and how he is with OW but acts as if he's somehow "noble" for not wanting to hurt OW...why? I don't see that as nice guy stuff but as cowardly and weak and that's IF it's even true....

I see him as having a big streak of selfishness and immaturity. I don't know how he'll improve much as it is. Maybe...

Keep making the times you do have, as upbeat and happy as can be.

I believe, and it is jmho, that you should get on with your life b/c he won't join you unless he is going to lose you otherwise. He's an indecisive cakeeater...imho. I certainly could be wrong.

And I pray somehow I have helped you.
I'll leave you with that.






((( )))

AJM, the only thing I can add to 25's take on your sitch is that I wish she'd have told me the same thing months ago! Please live *your* life as you need to without worrying too much how it will affect your H. He'll figure it out or he won't. If he does, you can work things out (if you want to) and if not, you're just that much further down the healing road.

I'm not sure what the deal is with the other woman. I found out about the affair at the end of Sept last year, he moved out in Nov, he told her he was married around Christmas, so while he started sleeping with her last May, it seems like it turned into a relationship late last year.

I think he has been cake eating. However, I do see a change in the last few weeks, as I have signaled more and more that I am moving away in 3 months. He told me about situation with other woman when I pushed for a serious convo. I told him that the landlady needed to know if I was renewing my lease by the start of next month. He knows I am leaning strongly towards NOT staying here and he'd have monthly weekend visitation with the kids.

When I move, it would be to stay with my parents and save up for a house while I decide where I would like to live longer-term. Much cheaper than staying here, which is part of why I plan to do it. H would have a very hard time moving to where my parents live, he just started a new job 8 months ago and committed to staying 3+ years with them. I would have a very hard time moving back to where he is, because I'll be getting pretty intense pressure from my family not to. Everyone says block out others, but I am 31, 2 babies, very close to my family, and my H is sleeping with a stripper...it'll be hard.

I don't (usually) care what he does with her. I asked if they were still together after he made a comment about MC. If he's with her, then there's no proceeding. If he's not committed enough to actually end things with her...he's not going to be able to make anything stick with me. I would guess he'll use her until he's ready to not be alone. It's very selfish and he does need to man up. He's doing a lot of new things lately, but I am taking it as trying to appease me/look like a good dad so I'll stick around until there is a lot of indication that it is something else.

I have to sleep now. Will reread later - thanks for your thoughts. I think they are pretty accurate, but want to reread and ponder. I may be a little better than you think with indicating I am leaving/life will be brighter/better without him and a bit worse than you think re having some mystery/minimizing contact.

So I know I'm being clear, imo, the way to save this marriage is to be willing to leave it behind you. It may not work, but a year of what you've been doing, has lead to him being with OW and not coming around or being decent,

until you say you are leaving, and that's a bit too transparent for me to ignore.

IF the time comes when he really wants to reconcile, you will know b/c he'll have clarity (or it won't be worth doing on your end).

Sorry about all this...it SO [censored]...
(( hugs ))

Honestly, on a level, it does suck (I hate this most of all for my kids at this point). I should end up financially ok, I have a loving family, a safe, happy place to go to. Sure, on some level I love and will miss him, BUT - he's a jackass - he's still dating a stripper. Regardless of how much he does or doesn't love the kids and I....he's making crappy choices and we don't have to be a part of that or wait around for him.

I told him last night to expect us to start moving forward on a move post vacation. He asked if he could sway that decision - I said probably (thinking he could get a court order, etc for custody)....then wrote back maybe, realizing it sounded like I was just fishing for something from him to keep me around (I couldnt come out and say, well you could take me to court - what would that accomplish besides giving him ideas I hope he hasnt thought of?).

I don't care to get played. I've done what I have done the last 6 months to make things as friendly and happy as possible while we both dealth with some of the emotions and issues. I worked on mine and have a good path ahead of me without him. He doesnt seem to have and now has to deal with what life brings.

AJM80,

You say things in ways that help me understand myself so much better. I become so clouded by my ambivalence, only to see more clearly in the way you've put this. I believe we are very much in the same place, same situation. Though you put it into words much more clearly then I, the feeling is the same.

I feel it is time that something change. Unfortunately, we will end up being the ones making those changes because both our WAS will never come around to see what they've lost until it's gone. It is the sad truth. Unfortunately, yes, the kids are the casualties here.

25yearsmlc is tough, but she provides some real insight and puts an honest face on reality. We've both been through this process together. I can see that maintaining the status quo will not get us the results we were hoping for. Time to do something more concrete about that.

I'm with you.

Not tough. REAL. You are talking to someone who has walked thru hell and trenches. You know what's cool? Regardless of the result, she did the right thing. For her first, her marriage second. Hope you understand this.

Success is based on how you handle your opportunity. Whatever opportunity you were given.

thanks Faith, I don't think a woman has ever said I'm "tough", just a few men...but frankly I figure, why waste time? People here are usually doing things that are not working and therefore need to change their approach even more than typically.

Anyhow, AJM, you are gaining clarity and with that, will eventually come peace.

You sound strong and as if you are putting you & the kids first too.

BTW, I loved your h's question.... he has no idea how he could get you to stay? Really? Okaaayyyy

I agree with you about not saying "uh, yeah get a court order" b/c he probably could. Not necessarily going to work if you can make the legit argument for the move, b/c with the kids and having family to support you as a single mom, but he might be able to stop you, so why give him that idea?

SIGH...

I still think there's a chance he'll have an awakening but for him, it will take the loss of you and the kids before it happens.

A month or 5 later, he'll drive by the house and you won't be there and he'll slap his forehead and say "WTH?"

Whether he tells you this remains to be seen. But if he can't do that, do you want to hear about all his doubts and questions, or just when he KNOWS what he wants? I'm guessing the latter.

I hope you keep posting b/c people need to see people like you who WILL MAKE IT no matter what. And you will.

"On vacation". Went into city with visitors. Kids asked if H was going to see them, we worked it out so he met us and walked around for a few hours while we were all in town.

Then, neighbors had a crazy fight and I late night texted H/talked briefly on the phone. It was super upsetting and scary. I probably shouldn't have called H, but when there are cops in your nice, quiet neighborhood at 2 am....

So, I sent 1-2 pics of the kids ystdy while on the road (rather than usual update/progress calls)/let D make a very short call to say gnight and tell him we'd finished our day of driving and the rental house is great. He texted back, thanks/please send pics/have fun.

I'm not going to, I don't think. No texts/calls today. I did send a 1 line email to pls tell mil that she could see pics on a file sharing site.

So, still trying to cut myself off more. I can do better/detach and not let this get to me.

Vacation is hard - dummy would have loved this trip. It is right up our mutual alley. name calling is a joke. Been around little kids.

he KNOWS he'd love the trip. No need to inform him...let him miss it.

Now YOU go have fun!!!