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Ok, I need some advice now. H was over the last two nights. Both nights I tried to be very clear about what I wanted/needed help with, like taking kids out for awhile so I had alone time, helping with dishes (since I cooked/usually do them), etc.

Last night I was a bit grouchy before dinner and said (a sort of apology), that I was feeling out of sorts and didnt know if it was a sleep/hormone thing or if I was frustrated that I don't really have a choice about moving. He brought up AHRNOLD the cheater and we talked about that a bit in a general news way. Then he got the kids outside for a walk and I got a chance to relax and finish cooking dinner.

Later in the night, after a good, fun visit (well, I'm not sure if he loved doing the dishes), I swatted at him with the broom and asked if he ever wants to just have a fight/have it out about how stupid all this is. Before anyone freaks, it was not an intense/drama filled thing. He said yes, well, not fight/you'd have that part, more just what an idiot I am. We didn't have a major convo, but he did say tell me to let him know if there is a time I want to set aside for a "fight". I said he should let me know when he wants to, since his schedule is harder.

So, what do I do? Leave it alone and see if he brings it up? Go for it this Sunday, when the kids will be asleep? Wait till after we are gone a few weeks on vacation around memorial day?

I was thinking I would ask when he comes on Sunday if we should talk while the kids nap. If he doesn't bite, I'll let it go? Or is this some sort of taking control/not being a doormat opportunity for me?

Ideally, we have some sort of convo on Sunday where he says what an idiot he is and I say I'm ready/have accepted that I'll probably have to move away, but that I don't like it. Then we have some nice visits next week, the kids and I leave for two weeks/min contact, then maybe we'll have a breakthrough when we get back?

I think I'm being too optimistic/trying to control the outcome and write a script.

I also mentioned that he'd need to start thinking about getting his stuff out of the attic. He went upstairs briefly to check it out. Came down with a football thing to take home with him - it was hard not to say THAT's WHAT YOU WANT TO LEAVE HERE WITH? lol - we have these amazing kids and ME and that's what you want to take with you tonight. overall, there are some heavy feelings in me, but nothing overwhelming.

Who knows, maybe the world is ending tomorrow and this isn't really an issue?

This made me smile. My parents used to do something similar when one of them needed to have a serious convo, but did not want to blindside the other.

If I had this opportunity, I’d bring it up toward the end of a visit when there was time to talk, but not dwell. It will probably be a heavy thought provoking convo and I’d want sometime alone afterward to think. I’d want to enter the conversation relaxed, not keyed up and defensive from some stressful situation. So I’d try and set the stage and keep the convo neutral to friendly, without confrontation. Surprise him and not fight.

Consider the source here, I have not been very successful following this type of advice in my sitch.

Thank you. I just find myself so angry at him today. That forget you, I'm done feeling. Anger for the kids, for me, for the financial stability, for the emotional pain that he knows he was stupid, but still doesn't care to fix things
. Erg.

I *completely* understand that feeling AJM. Especially the doesn't care to fix things attitude. I feel like I'm done doing all the work. I hope you can hang on better than I did.

Thanks. I was telling onmyway not to doubt himself the other day, since this is a roller coaster and emotionally it is so easy to get up and down, regardless of where you really are. Now I'm back on a slide too.

I just wonder sometimes. If we did reconcile, could things really work out or will I just be back in this place in a few years again? Maybe we just aren't that important to him. I remember he told me when I was pregnant with daughter that he'd always love me best of all, joking that he had to love our kids since they were related. Did he miss a gene for what love actually is? I think he thinks so. That there is something wrong or broken in him.

I still have such amazing joy in my life. We had a wonderful morning cuddle today. Later, when my D started crying that she missed her daddy "soo much" today, I just about snapped. I KNOW how important a dad is to a little girl. I want to ask him how I should respond when she asks what happened to make daddy leave. How I should tell her that daddy loved himself and a stripper more than mommy and living with her. I think of all the crap he put me through while I was pregnant. And I just want to book a moving truck and leave. I don't understand cheating, but I surely understand the reason behind WAWs.

He's putting a lot of time and energy into an organizational thing at work. I want him to succeed at work and if this is part of that, great. But really, that's what is important?

Erg, I'm not trying to get anyone down. It's a gorgeous day, people are healthy and doing well. I'm just thinking, maybe he's not worth all this. maybe he's not good enough.

I often wonder the same things.
I'm doing my best to hold my life and the kids' lives together, do my own personal development work, find more paying work and DB my butt off.

H is in survival mode and done pretty much nothing to change the status quo since he left.

I'm very close to giving up. The Tank is a hair above 'E'.

Seriously! I try to think, ok, this may seem unfair now, when I am taking care of almost all the kids needs. But, H is paying for everything now financially and he'll suffer later, when he doesn't have a strong relationship with the kids. I know he misses them and I'm pretty sure he loves and misses me. We're just so mired in all the crap he's done, plus the stuff we jointly did that let up to it (not appreciating each other, growing apart, adjusting to 2 little ones)

Scylla- you've been separated 2 years now? Has there been anything that you've felt really moved things along? So far, with my H, time has helped a lot. BUT he's kind of cake eating. We have some impediments to the status quo coming up. I am in no hurry to D and have to spend $ on atty, health insurance, etc.

I should lose 15 lbs and get a makeover, but I refuse because I want him to love ME, not me trying to look like a 19 yr old stripper.

No, I can't say there has been anything that's moved things along.
Just lately there have been some glimmers.
It's not enough to keep me going though.
With an H. in survival mode work, eat, gym, sleep with a possible EA, and his programmed pattern of silence, conflict avoidance it's been pretty static in my situation.
I know he loves the kids. I know he has a strong sense of duty.

I sincerely doubt he loves me, there can be no love where fear exists. For a long time now he's been telling me what he thought I wanted to hear. Appeasing me like some dragon needing virgin sacrifice and in so doing making me out a monster, lying to me and denying his own truth/needs/wants.

I am in no hurrt to D either, it would impact the kids and me severely. I'm struggling mightly to figure out if now " I'm done."

Sorry that hurrt should be hurry. Freudian slip or typo...who knows?

Aww, I totally get that slip. It does hurt.