Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Recovering after a same sex affair - Part 4

That's a great question. Wish I had a straight forward answer. I think, though, if you reread your post, you have answered your own question. Socrates would be proud

It is great that your wife is feeling heard. I can imagine she is pushing back at this, because now that you are listening, it is invalidating one of her reasons for leaving. That is expected, so be prepared to ignore her jabs and keep moving forward. She will continue to test you on this, so watch out.

That said, there is nothing wrong with you disagreeing with her. If you are always agreeing, she may see you as weak. Disagreeing is ok as long as you can do so without fighting over who is more right. Something along the lines of "I see it this way, which is at odds with how you see it, however, that doesn't mean I don't hear you or regard your opinion incorrect. I just see if from a different perspective" type of thing. You still have to validate her, but you don't have to agree with her. Just don't let her use it as a tool to get at you. She may use the resulting issue to rejustify the validity of her affair.

Or you can just say, Are you really mad at me right now because I'm being agreeable and pleasant to talk to, or is something else going on?

I think, in the right circumstances, you can tease your wife a little and still make a serious point. Look, you were mad at me because I wasn't listening to you during our marriage and now you're mad at me because I am listening to you AND we've both discovered that I appreciate and sometimes even agree with your views on things. Can we agree that I recognize my failure to listen to you, have been working on it, and give me credit for my progress, rather than fighting about me being agreeable? You're sharing your thoughts, feelings, and perceptions of our relationship. I may not have the same views all the time, but I can certainly still appreciate and acknowledge your take on it, just like I hope you can do the same with my point of view. We're still disagreeing sometimes, so don't think I'm just rolling over and agreeing with everything you say to get a pat on the head from the therapist.

I'm not sure you're in the right situation to have that kind of dialogue. But, if you need her to back off and quit being so critical, I think you do need to politely stick up for yourself. If she's being snotty to save her arguments for leaving, it's not your job to just take it, but know that she is trying to justify what she did however she can. Someday, soon, hopefully, she'll be able to admit why it is so upsetting for her. (that you'd change, that this all didnt have to happen, that maybe she was wrong)

Couples Therapy Journal

Ugh. Another rough one.

We started off checking in on the parenting coordinator. W did not make any progress but reiterated that it was a priority for her, but her life has been too overwhelming right now. Sigh. If it is such a priority, why has it taken two months to make this little progress? I am not complaining, though.

I haven't yet mentioned it here I don't believe, but my W has decided to take a second job. For the next month, she will teach during the week and then work at a kid's store on the weekends. When school is out, she will take care of our S during the day but continue to work the weekends.

This job discussion became the topic of discussion for the hour. I had a concern with the job and wanted to discuss it. I mentioned how my W decided to take this job without any consideration of my needs. No communication on how it might effect me. I understand that she is not wanting a second job but needs the money to stay afloat. I told her that I was not against the idea, but I would have appreciated if it was discussed a bit more. I only wish she had kept me more in the loop, as she was making this decision.

I told her that her taking this job on the weekends directly impacts me, so it would have been nice to have some idea of her intentions. Right now, we have 50/50 custody of our S. We split the weekend days and nights. On the days that I do not have my S, I try and work overtime at work. It is a lottery system. I put in for overtime every weekend, but I do not get chosen but one day every few weeks. With her taking this job, I will be taking care of our S all weekend. In doing so, I give up any opportunity to work. I actually rely on this overtime pay to pay my bills and meet my needs.

This conversation got VERY heated. My W got very defensive and in return threw a ton of crap at me. She tried to say that I was trying to put my social life in front of my responsibilities as a father. She mentioned that she would cherish any time with our S and disappointed that I didn't feel the same way. She pulled the card that she needs the money more than I do.

The conversation became ridiculous. My W yelled the entire time. She would expertly twist any words that I was able to get out. Anytime I would try to defend myself, she would interrupt me. I will admit. I got extremely flustered. Our therapist tried to regain control of the conversation numerous times. Called my W out on her interruptions. She asked W is she noticed that every time she gets angry, she interrupts anything that I say. Therapist also told her that she was a master of twisting of words. I looked incredibly week in this conversation and lost all control to validate. I spent the entire hour in defense. So frustrating.

It took a long time just to explain that it has nothing to do with unwillingness to take care of our S or the hit on my weekend social life. I truly cherish all time with our S and hold the responsibilities very seriously. The key matter for me was the inability to work and the lack of communication or consideration on her part. Therapist did correct me that consideration was probably not the word I was looking for. This term makes it sound like my W needed permission from me to get a second job. In our current situation, this would be very damaging.

We also talked about how she had a huge issue several years ago when I did not work overtime whenever I could. It was not a lottery system at that time. It always frustrated her that I would not take all that I could when we could have used the money. She thought that I should have worked more. It was pretty frustrating to hear that, as I still worked overtime often back then. since it went to the lottery system over a year ago, I have put in for it every weekend. I tried to validate her feelings but kept coming up short, and it was upsetting my W even more.

I took this opportunity to mention my concerns with validation. I told them it has been something I have really been working on, but I am having trouble with the correct approach in certain situations. Just as I have mentioned here. How do I validate when I do not agree? Therapist mentioned that whenever I agree with my W, I tell her that "I can see how she would feel a certain way". When I do not agree, I tell my W that "I could see how someone would feel this way". It was interesting to be told that, because I never saw it before. I am really going to have to work on validation strategies, because I think mastering this would go a long way.

It took nearly the entire hour to get on the same page, but we finally cooled off and got there. We communicated that she would only work both weekend days a few times a month. We also discussed that if I were to get the promotion that I have been fighting for (could happen in the next month) that I would not need or have the ability for overtime anymore. My therapist told us that we had come a long way in these heated conversations and actually saw the positive in it. Said that we were able to go from opposite sides to an understanding without the needs for breaks or escape. My W said that it would not have been possible anywhere but in a therapy session. Therapist said that over time, it will get better and we would practice on our own.

All in all, it was a very frustrating session. W was mad at the world. I kept making mistakes, as the conversation became escalated. I felt pretty weak, as she was hammering down on me. Maybe keeping my cool and not escalating myself is actually the best thing that I did. I don't know. I just didn't have a positive feeling as I left. It made me want to seek out my W further to make amends. That is frustrating.

This is what I need major practice in. I am going to start looking for material on good commincation and validation strategy. I think it would make a huge difference in my ability to comminicate with her.

AJ - I wish it were the right situation to be so candid. I like the idea of protecting myself, but I need to be very careful and wait for the proper opportunity. I can see that causing a major escalation.

Makes sense - someday I hope you get to that point where you can talk more openly. Even now, with H being more normal most of the time, I am still seeing glimpses of TOTAL fog/avoidance of reality too.

I would like to hear the opinions of your other readers on my sticking up for yourself/politely telling her to ease up on bashing you. I was kind of a doormat, so sticking up for myself was an important thing for me in this process. (by the same token, I tried to treat H with the same respect I requested)

Try to build in some positive fun time, ok? The whole point of DB'ing is not for you to get the sh-t kicked out of you by your wife whenever she feels like it. And it isn't for you to make amends for everything that ever happened in your lives together. I think you're doing some good things, based on what you and your wife and therapist are all saying. I'm just saying there have to be good times to show there can be future good times. And you sound stressed and a little down, understandably so.

You're going to be tired out watching son alone all weekend and working full time, so hopefully her comment that she won't work every weekend will stick. Do you have family in the area who could take care of him sometimes and give you guys a break financially? If this were a nasty divorce situation, she'd have to pay for childcare (or 50/50) if she was working.

To me validating, doesn't necessarily mean agreeing with them. It merely means understanding where they are coming from, and taking their feelings and opinions into consideration.

That being said, she is seeing pressure mount up on her. The fairy tale keeps falling apart, and she wants to kick her old scapegoat again. Let her vent tell her you understand her frustrations, and tell her you will help within your means and capabilities. Then just let her kick and scream. Eventually she will just get tired, and calm down. At this level she may realize what she did and even apologize. Let her go crazy while you keep your calm. Eventually she'll realize it's her acting like a crazy brat not you. Be careful though as she is most likely baiting you into a fight so she can place as much blame as she can on you. (Although we both know that the finances would be better of for the both of you if she hadn't gone WAW). She is looking to blame you for her mistakes. Typical WAW.

"surely it's not my fault the fairy tale is falling apart, must be that damn LBS again!!!"

Hey Sparks and OMW - check out the stories on Cherie and Mitch Daniels - a quick google search will pull up a couple. He's the gov of Indiana who may be running for pres. Apparently she left him with their 4 young children/moved to CA/married a surgeon/divorced surgeon and within 3 years of their D was back home and remarried to him.

They aren't saying much about the details, but that is a pretty significant DB success story. (not saying he's officially a DB-er, just someone who's been in the trenches) Just a little inspiration for you guys with WAW's.

This just reminds me of what my DB Coach told me (AJM80 and I have discussed this elsewhere), a WAW who complains still very much cares. If she was disinterested (a better way of putting it, don't ya think AJ?), then she'd be done. Try to look at it this way: She keeps coming at you because she is still very much involved in this process - and that's a good thing. Like gb90 says, she's baiting you into conflict, so she can have a chance to justify her actions for what she's done. My W still does this to me, even though she is slowly beginning to come to grips with reality and taking responsibility. I know its tough to not let it get you down. Just realize it's a trick and a positive (a negative positive?). You are on the right track. Stay the course.

Sparks, you've been quiet for awhile. Is everything ok? Let us know what is up, when you feel like it/have time.