Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Affair (continued)

no Jack, he didn't say the word "work".

For me it sounded as if he was getting impatient and wanted some guarantee that his time spent...doing whatever it is, would be rewarded and that she'd for sure forgive him. Hence his pursuing her and repeatedly asking that even after she says there's nothing to say. She needs time. This bothers him. Why? B/C maybe she will NOT come around?

Plus, I don't get the guarantee part in this scenario b/c I think SHE'D want the guarantee, but probably thought she had one before...

We're all working to improve ourselves not b/c we are "owed" something by our spouses, in exchange for this progress, but b/c we owe it to ourselves (and kids). Also I sensed the ic was being done to search for "an answer" that would explain the A in a way that eases HIS discomfort. That makes me uncomfortable, but I can't quite articulate why.

Chris, if it's any consolation, most of us here have done inner searches and found things we are NOT proud of, within. But we work on them and it's a brave tough thing to do.

You are given the chance, Chris. You are in that time frame right this minute. This is the chance you keep begging to have.

Here is what I have seen from the writings of other men. They want to be assured that the W will be 100% into the M. Before they do any work, they want to know that she is willing to put her all into the M. It's like they don't want to take a chance of wasting one day of "trying" if she isn't going to guarantee him that she'll stay in the R and work just as hard as he does.

I want you to realize something very important here. The burden of proof is not on your W. She doesn't owe you any trust. All the burden of proof is on you. Stop trying to get her to go to MC and to talk about the R. Just straighten up and start doing the work that you need to do on yourself. Every day that she doesn't walk away...is another chance she's giving you.

Chris:

You have 3 of the wisest dbers on this board. Please listen to them. STOP trying to justify and look within , you might not like what you see and it may take time, but thats where the work begins.

Shakespeare always has a tragic flaw for his heroes. Mine is impatience. Dont let this be yours as well. You are in a position that many of us would love to be in. Patience Patience Patience. And when that start to get trying for you, be even more patient.

LISTEN to them , they are wise and are not here to be your best firend, they are here to get you to look inside in hopes that you will help yourself in the long run.

Sometimes its not pleasant to hear, but it is necessary.

9

chris

in your FIRST Post (or the first one I was able to read) you mention that you really screwed up partly b/c things with your w "were going so well", or words to that effect, when you had the affair.

Less than 10 days later, you say you were "just looking for some affection"...as if it was missing from the M...

already the story is changing. That's a red flag to me.

Then, I noticed that your w found out NOT FROM YOU (why all the credit to YOU for being honest? You mean you were caught?) but from ow. OUCH!!

And when I saw the date of when this all began I shook my head, May 5th!!!

If i were in your w's shoes and my h wanted ANYTHING from me, just 10 days into me finding out, via OW, I would probably start with slapping his face, hard (not defending violence, but imagining my reaction), and say something like the following:

I would ask him "h, you broke your vows WHILE we were doing "fine", at least according to YOU. So now I have to wonder what "fine" means b/c if you cheat on me when YOU SAY things were good, then why won't you cheat when we face hard times, like ALL couples do?????"

And, how dare you ask anything of me so fast and so soon into my grief...
Stop trying to paint me into a corner.
If you cannot back the heck off and man up for our children, (no whining about you being ignored or "if looks could kill" or YOU needing to be reassured, b/c newsflash--YOU ARE NOT THE ONE WHO WAS BETRAYED....and if you are already complaining 2 weeks into this, then I seriously doubt you are capable of earning trust back. You simply want it back...well, I want my life back too, but someone (you) just yanked the floor out from under me and I am still reeling...trying to catch my breath, trying not to cry all the time, trying not to hit you or scream, trying not to "lose it", trying NOT to think of what my father did to my mother, and how I'm in the same damn position as she was, trying to understand how the father of MY kids could put me in this position...trying to get a bettter job b/c apparently you are NOT a reliable man,"

and so on....

Does this help you gain some perspective? I am sorry if this hurts even more b/c I know you are in pain. I get that. Yet, You just strike me as being really....lazy. I say that b/c Your discomfort at her being angry, is so "unpleasant" for you, that your pain is what consumes you and it is NOT remorse for hurting HER that I hear...it's regret about getting caught and paying "Such a harsh price"...OMG I wanted to reach through this machine to shake you when I read that. "Harsh price"? What harsh price? She's still in the house, in the same bed, allowing you around everyone. You have paid NOTHING yet. Somehow this really is all about YOU and how much YOU are suffering...

I have not heard you mention your children once, and the pain your w feels takes 2nd place to yours. You want to KNOW if and when things will get back to normal...if ever, not for a long time. Adultery is a deeply wounding betrayal. It rocks us to our core. Your w is in grief. GRIEF...caused by your actions. Let her have that. Stop the minimizing, stop the justifying, and just own what you did and that it's a BIG deal to her, regardless of what it meant to you.

I don't think you get it. But I really want you to.

ps

Get the DR book and read it, often and again. And do NOT mention it to your w or ask her to read it, or tell her to come here on this site, or any of that. Don't tell her you are here "getting help" and don't brag about the changes you are making, and all that you are learning and blah blah blah...just do and be the changed man. No talk. Just actions, over time, and without expectations.

You are not owed anything. But you have been given much.

Thank you, I am going to give her space. Honestly Jack been so busy running the kids from place to place that I havent had a chance to read the chapter you suggested. Youre right I have been a anxious mess, and really trying to correct that.

While in MC I did avoid anything that would make it seem like any ones fault other than my own. I guess I just expected her to want to continue the MC since she was so agreeable to go. But her lack of desire to continue it really messed me up. I know that this has to be her time line just feel like there is this giant clock counting down to my ultimate demise.

Oh hells 25, your post makes ME want to apologze to MY wife, and I haven't even done anything bad. : )

25, yes your words brought a lot of truth to me......I want to get it. I am trying I am really. Things are just swirling in my head nothing makes sense right now. I cant seem to get into words what I am trying to say. Everything is coming out wrong. I know this is her pain and I have no right to claim any of that. I am a reliable man but have hurt so many...I never ment to convey that my pain was greater than hers. I will never know the depth of her pain or sense of anger she feels. The problem is she hasnt really told me much so I can only speak from my prospective.

I havent mentioned my kids because I dont want to discuss my children on the internet. Not that pedophiles or anything of the sort hang out in this chat, but I am just uncomfortable discussing them here. I know that is strange but in my line of work I have seen some awful things occur to children. I protect those children with my life....everyday. I hope that you can understand. I hope that some of this made sense. Please know that you made a lot sense to me and have given me tons to think about.

the main point of my posts is that you have to give her time to grieve.

There has been a death in her family, the death of the m she had to you. I really think that is what it feels like.

You speak of the 15 years of fidelity but as Jack says (hi Jack--hey, I was just saying IF IT WERE Me....ya know, empathizing?!!)

those "faithful" years are gone now. Besides, it's only your word that says so. For all she knows, you were NOT faithful all those years for you have undermined the whole m to her.

Bottom line, and it's crucial that you get this... She's still in shock, and doesn't know what is best for HER, or her children, or whether she can ever trust you, or what's right. She has pride and ego and she's trying to keep from letting those guide her, but she wants her self respect & she's finding that there is a fine line between the two...so Forget the anger, or the "plan" you think she has or is forming.... She does not know. She's reeling. Back WAY off.

Did she see forgiveness growing up, or bitterness, or just victimhood? I don't know. But I do know you have a much longer road ahead than you expected. And SO DOES SHE.

When the time comes, and it's NOT NOW, you can ask your w what she needs from you, if anything. She may simply need more space. Whatever it is, you give it to her.

This is not about you being a doormat. Plus, lucky for you, she does not sound like a woman filled with hatred or scorn.

However She moves forward, no doubt she will backslide, and you'll have to cut her some slack when that happens. That's if she chooses to stay m. She might. Give her the space to do so.

I don't think you should be looking for an apartment when she has not asked you to. Why would you? You think all your stuff is going to be on the lawn? Really? To me, It seems as if you want to get out of the discomfort zone more than anything else, b/c you want your pain to end, and that's about YOU, not her.

Follow her lead. She has not filed, she has not asked you to leave, she has not left. These are good signs. You are being given the chance to DB however briefly. So do it.

Have you read the DR book yet? If you have not gotten through it yet, make that a priority. Frankly, It looks weird for you to post here without having read the book(s) that forms the basis of the approach here.


Also, when looking for a pro m mc, a question I asked is whether they were "solution based". That's b/c I was not particularly interested in going through h's childhood issues or baggage, or mine. We had already been in workshops & therapy years earlier, and had worked through a great deal.

I felt that what I needed were solutions for NOW, not psychoanalysis. (Not bashing it, just saying it's not what I needed then and there for my m).

Don't pressure her to attend mc, YOU go. The more you pressure her, the more likely you will get an answer you don't want.

I highly HIGHLY recommend a DB coach for you (and only you. If SHE wants a DB coach, she can call herself).

I found the DB coach i had to be a Godsend. Absolutely the single best thing I did to save the m.

Later on, much later, h and I went to Retrovaille, which is a retreat/workshop for couples in trouble.

That was wonderful. The stories you hear will give you and your w some hope and confidence in the future of your m, but if it's not enough to stay m, at least you'll communicate better. (Although It started in the Catholic church, you do not have to be in the Church to attend.

My h is not Catholic and no one shoved it at us). Also it charges on a sliding scale. Down the road, if she's willing, I think you'd get a lot out of it, But I doubt it's something you two could do now.

Good luck