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I think so 25. Thanks for taking a look at my situation.

BITS
Denver

OK, seriously, are you sure we're not married to the same person? They must be reading the same books or something because I have heard this exact sentence.

My response was actually that I did not expect things to instantly get better like we had flipped a light switch or something. And then I validated as much as I possibly could, spoke to the inner strength that she was rediscovering in herself, and acknowledged my part in her suppressing things and bottling up her emotions because of my reactions.

I know you're aware of a lot of the mistakes I've made over the last couple months, but I feel like this particular convo was not one of them. One of my better moments IMO.

Not sure if it helps or not, just my 2 cents.

Thanks 2Step. I know that you are right... er, that I was right when I posted that on your thread. Whatever. It is good advice.

Thanks man.

BITS
Denver

Thanks for taking the time to read my thread 25. I appreciate the 2x4s and agree with you completely. I responded to some of your specific remarks below.



Okay 25, LOL, I deserve that. I really do. And I know that you haven't read my thread from the its beginning back in December. So I feel that I need explain why this happened. Not as justification so much as to get myself centered and focused again. To understand why I've slipped off the ledge so much over the past month.

See, I feel that I did a pretty bang up job DBing my sitch from December through February. My W was DONE when she left at the end of November. She had no intentions of ever coming back to me.

When I found DB, I really focused on finding out where I had messed up and why I had messed up. I went to IC and feel like I did lot of self reflection both there and on my own. I did GAL and my 180s have been good... they have been noticed by my W. Back in February she commented that she was being convinced that they were real not bc of my words, but bc of the 'energy' that she was getting from me.

So W develops a R with OM. But, as she has told me since, she began to see me in a new light in mid January. And this caused her to wonder if she was making the right decision. So she began to have more and more contact with me. Not with me initiating... but on her own. By the beginning of February, she was asking me why I hadn't tried to fix things or even brought up a conversation about fixing things. Well, the answer to that was because I was DBing. Hardcore DBing.

So in February we began to hang out more, and she began to distance herself from OM some (she ended their physical R in January). She invited me to go to Buffalo with her at the beginning of March for her grandmother's funeral. We had a really good time together (not the funeral, but the trip in general).

A couple of weeks after we returned, she cut off contact with OM completely and committed to going to MC with me. And not with me asking her... she knew I wanted to go when she was ready... and when she was, she told me.

So mid March came... and here is where I made a critical error. I believed that we had moved to the piecing stage.

What this meant for me was that I needed to be the H that she had always wanted me to be. I was very loving, very affectionate, I made time for her, I told her that I loved her (and she even returned that a few times)... I acted the opposite of the way that I did that caused her to leave me in the first place. This meant that I could no longer be unavailable to her... and she noticed all of it... and seemed to be impressed. At our 1st of 2 MC sessions, she even told the MC that she believed that I had really changed... and that she wanted M to work.

But... what I didn't expect, or see, was that she had moved to quickly. That emotionally she was not ready. She had cut off contact with OM, whom she has nothing bad to say about, and fully committed to a M that she had believed was dead not 6 weeks before.

And here I was basically smothering her with all of the pent up love that I had inside of me from the past 3+ months of being away from her and believing that I had lost her for good.

Where was OM? He was not contacting her and when he did, he acted very hurt by her decision. W told me at the beginning of April that she felt guilt over that.

Clearly, W was not ready to piece, had not dealt with the anger and resentment towards me that caused her to leave in the first place, and had not dealt with her feelings for OM.

BUT I was there ... and had stopped doing some of the DB things that got me there in the first place. OM was DBing in a sense without even knowing it.

Actually writing this out has helped me understand where I have messed up. But I think that it also may give you an understanding why I have been DBing so terribly over the past month. Here I was thinking that I was piecing ... and when I sensed that slipping, I panicked.

Okay... No more. It's back to some of the basics.

THANKS 25.

BITS
Denver

Strategy moving forward... refocusing.

I had a conversation with a good friend of mine who is familiar with DB. He/she was very helpful in getting myself refocused. This may be a bit stream of conscience, so I apologize. The purpose is to get this straight in my head and have it in writing so that I can refer to it.

1. OM does not matter. He wins if I let him. That means if I let his presence in my situation get to me, he wins. I cannot show W that I am bothered if she tells me that she has or is going to have contact with OM. I cannot control whether or not W chooses to have contact with him. I need to accept that. He wins ONLY IF I LET HIM.

2. Back off - Reduce amount of initiating contact with W. Don't always answer her phone calls immediately. Do always answer her text messages right away. Don't jump to hang out with her all of the time.

3. Continue to show W new me - Continue to listen and validate W. Continue to be attentive and loving. Without telling her that I love her. Continue to actually actively listen to what W talks about. Continue to be fun to be around... be in a good mood... don't be a downer... be available to W and SS, but not too available. If needed, fake it till I make it. Act AS IF.

4. Do not talk about OM. Do not bring it up. Ignore it. see #1. Under no circumstances talk negatively about OM. Do not put them on the same team. Do not put W in defensive posture about OM.

5. Do not talk about R unless W brings it up. And if she does, THEN do way more listening than talking. listen and validate, listen and validate.

6. Eliminate expectations. Don't be upset if W does not invite me to do things. do not be upset if she declines invites from me. If I do something nice for her, do it bc I want to, not bc I have an expectation of something or some reaction in return.

7. Do not be doormat - I am a doormat IF ... I do something that I do not want to do bc I believe W expects it or will be upset with me about if I don't do it. I am NOT a doormat if I CHOOSE to do or not do something bc it is what I WANT to do.

8. Lovingly detach to a degree - self protection mechanism. For numbers 1, 4 and 6. Focus, focus, focus. I cannot control my W, her decisions, her actions, thoughts or feelings. I control only me. BUT, I love my W without conditions... so accept what she does, feels and thinks with the knowledge that she is on her own journey. None of it can kill me... I will be okay regardless. AND, I do not have to stay in this unless I choose to. I have a parachute that I can use at any time.

9. Start to GAL again. My life cannot be all about my W and SS. GAL to make myself happy and to create some mystery about myself.

10. Be the better man. I am better than the OM... no question. But that is not what is most important. I must be better than the old me. Be focused on improving myself, how I react to things, how I live my life on a daily basis. Be happy.

11. Continue to create confusion in my W about her initial decision. When my W left, she was DONE. DBing has allowed me to get her to a point of confusion on that initial decision. This has, and continues to be, a good thing. I do this by continuing with my 180's and being the better man.

12. Be Patient. Patience is a virtue. I am learning it and it will be useful to me in the future regardless of how this turns out.

13. Time is still my friend. Even though I have been knocked down the mountain a bit, my W is still closer to reconciling than I ever thought that she would be back in November, December and January. I am still married and no paperwork has even been filed.

14. IF NEEDED - CLOSE THE GATES nicely and lovingly, and without being a martyr. I must continue being patient and giving this time. And I must take advantage of this time to show my W more of the new me... she has seen if for 3+ months. She needs to see more of it. BUT, the time may come when I need to take the new me away from her. When she must be forced to see what her life will be like without the NEW me... This conversation must be done nicely and with love. Merely that her indecision has gotten to the point that it is not fair to me, OM, or to SS. That I will now be taking myself out of the equation. That I will still be here if and when she decides that she wants to commit to me and M, but that I don't know for how long.

------------

Brief update.

Contacted my W on Monday. Asked her how the dinner went with OM. She said a fine and a little weird. Not sure what she meant about weird bc then she went on to tell me that he received message while they were eating that his father had passed away. I asked her how OM's father died. She explained that he had cancer and that he had been in a bad way for a while. She told me that she has never met any of OM's family and didn't know much about the situation. I told her that I felt badly that OM's dad had died and that she could pass along my condolences if she wanted to.

We chit chatted a bit more about SS and his homework. I told her that I needed to finish up some science homework that he and I had been working on last week. She told me to call him later to see if he wanted to do it.

I called later. SS didn't want to do his homework (no surprise). W said that she was going to watch a movie with SS and then do some work. I offered to take her dinner. She accepted.

I went to W's house with some dinner. We hung out for about an hour. I acted as if I was completely fine and cheerful. No more talk of OM or R.

Today - I began new approach to situation as described above. I did not initiate contact with W. W texted me to ask me about some mother's day plans that I made for us and her mom. I did not respond to the text. 8 minutes later she called... I ignored the call.

I went to the gym. When I left, I noticed that she had texted me again, 'call when you can'.

On my way home, I called W back and acted as if I was cheerful.

W told me that she had to change the mother's day plans that I had made bc her brother, who is in town from Korea this week, wanted to do it later. She said that is why she was trying to get a hold of me. She did not ask where I was during the 2 hours that she could not get hold of me.

W then told me that she got news that one of her former students from when she was student teaching had committed suicide last night. She was upset about it, as was I bc I had met the girl.

W said that we'd talk more about the changes to our Mother's day plans.... 'if not tonight, then tomorrow.' I said okay.

We did not talk tonight.

BITS
Denver

[quote=Denver_2010]Strategy moving forward... refocusing.

I had a conversation with a good friend of mine who is familiar with DB. He/she was very helpful in getting myself refocused. This may be a bit stream of conscience, so I apologize. The purpose is to get this straight in my head and have it in writing so that I can refer to it.

1. OM does not matter. He wins if I let him. That means if I let his presence in my situation get to me, he wins. I cannot show W that I am bothered if she tells me that she has or is going to have contact with OM. I cannot control whether or not W chooses to have contact with him. I need to accept that. He wins ONLY IF I LET HIM.

I was going down your list and liking it and wanted to highlight the above. Then I saw the "update" and realized this is a whole lot of TALK to you so far. No matter what you write down here, your behaviors revert over and over. I hope you are realizing how you have NOT been doing what you need to do OR what you say you will do. Period. I can't say why b/c you SAY all the right things and then you DO the wrong things...on the same post I see a 180 from your 180, which is ZERO movement...I realize you posted the updates and then updated them again, as in as of TODAY..but if you think you will notice significant changes in your w's behavior any time soon, DON'T. You won't. It will take TIME and when you say you are working on being patient, then stop the expectations, (see below)

2. Back off - Reduce amount of initiating contact with W. Don't always answer her phone calls immediately. Do always answer her text messages right away. Don't jump to hang out with her all of the time.

3. Continue to show W new me - Continue to listen and validate W. Continue to be attentive and loving. Without telling her that I love her. Continue to actually actively listen to what W talks about. Continue to be fun to be around... be in a good mood... don't be a downer... be available to W and SS, but not too available. If needed, fake it till I make it. Act AS IF.

4. Do not talk about OM. Do not bring it up. Ignore it. see #1. Under no circumstances talk negatively about OM. Do not put them on the same team. Do not put W in defensive posture about OM.

5. Do not talk about R unless W brings it up. And if she does, THEN do way more listening than talking. listen and validate, listen and validate.

6. Eliminate expectations. Don't be upset if W does not invite me to do things. do not be upset if she declines invites from me. If I do something nice for her, do it bc I want to, not bc I have an expectation of something or some reaction in return.

7. Do not be doormat - I am a doormat IF ... I do something that I do not want to do bc I believe W expects it or will be upset with me about if I don't do it. I am NOT a doormat if I CHOOSE to do or not do something bc it is what I WANT to do.

8. Lovingly detach to a degree - self protection mechanism. For numbers 1, 4 and 6. Focus, focus, focus. I cannot control my W, her decisions, her actions, thoughts or feelings. I control only me. BUT, I love my W without conditions... so accept what she does, feels and thinks with the knowledge that she is on her own journey. None of it can kill me... I will be okay regardless. AND, I do not have to stay in this unless I choose to. I have a parachute that I can use at any time.

9. Start to GAL again. My life cannot be all about my W and SS. GAL to make myself happy and to create some mystery about myself.

10. Be the better man. I am better than the OM... no question. But that is not what is most important. I must be better than the old me. Be focused on improving myself, how I react to things, how I live my life on a daily basis. Be happy.

11. Continue to create confusion in my W about her initial decision. When my W left, she was DONE. DBing has allowed me to get her to a point of confusion on that initial decision. This has, and continues to be, a good thing. I do this by continuing with my 180's and being the better man.

12. Be Patient. Patience is a virtue. I am learning it and it will be useful to me in the future regardless of how this turns out.

13. Time is still my friend. Even though I have been knocked down the mountain a bit, my W is still closer to reconciling than I ever thought that she would be back in November, December and January. I am still married and no paperwork has even been filed.

14. IF NEEDED - CLOSE THE GATES nicely and lovingly, and without being a martyr. I must continue being patient and giving this time. And I must take advantage of this time to show my W more of the new me... she has seen if for 3+ months. She needs to see more of it. BUT, the time may come when I need to take the new me away from her. When she must be forced to see what her life will be like without the NEW me... This conversation must be done nicely and with love. Merely that her indecision has gotten to the point that it is not fair to me, OM, or to SS. That I will now be taking myself out of the equation. That I will still be here if and when she decides that she wants to commit to me and M, but that I don't know for how long.

GREAT TO DO LIST ------------
BUT YOU HAVE TO DO IT, FOR GOOD. THIS IS THE NEW YOU- SO YOU CANNOT MEASURE AND CHECK FOR "RESULTS" ANYTIME SOON. THIS ISN'T A "TACTIC"...REMEMBER?
Brief update.

Contacted my W on Monday. Asked her how the dinner went with OM.

WHY, DEAR GOD, WHY DID YOU ASK HER ANYTHING ABOUT OM? THIS IS THE SAME OM YOU JUST SAID DOES NOT MATTER? THIS WAS THE "OLD" YOU? UM, OKAY...

She said a fine and a little weird. Not sure what she meant about weird bc then she went on to tell me that he received message while they were eating that his father had passed away.

Geez, you should spend a LOT of energy wondering what she meant by that word..."weird"...keep staring at it. Keep your focus on THAT and not on you or your new life...SO NOW can you see how you have been doing the opposite of what you have on your "to do" list?

I asked her how OM's father died. She explained that he had cancer and that he had been in a bad way for a while. She told me that she has never met any of OM's family and didn't know much about the situation. I told her that I felt badly that OM's dad had died and that she could pass along my condolences if she wanted to.

What?? I'm shaking my head. You are sooo...back and forth, no wonder she doesn't trust the "changes"...


We chit chatted ----

I went to W's house with some dinner. We hung out for about an hour. I acted as if I was completely fine and cheerful. No more talk of OM or R.



Today - I began new approach to situation as described above. I did not initiate contact with W. W texted me to ask me about some mother's day plans that I made for us and her mom. I did not respond to the text. 8 minutes later she called... I ignored the call.

I went to the gym. When I left, I noticed that she had texted me again, 'call when you can'.

On my way home, I called W back and acted as if I was cheerful.

Welcome to the Drama Club of DBing...trust me, we all know it's hard. I should win an Oscar for how I sounded on the phone. At least a dozen times I had prayed or had a DB session moments before h called and he said "you sound great!" I wasn't "great" at all. I was faking it til I made it and you know, it worked. Seriously, the more upbeat I was, the more h wanted to hear about things with the kids and fun stuff at home..."sunny and warm HERE..." which contrasted with the life he had started to create for himself. After a long LONG time, he sensed that I was nearly detached totally. And he woke up. Began calling daily, sometimes several times. Began asking me to join him, then said "begging" me to come up and then wanted to prove that he "could be the h I deserved", wanted a chance to become that h for me... he was very clear with his feelings. After several months of this, I said "yes we can try" and the piecing began. Being upbeat was the opposite of how I felt, but it was also what worked.


W told me that she had to change the mother's day plans that I had made bc her brother, who is in town from Korea this week, wanted to do it later. She said that is why she was trying to get a hold of me. She did not ask where I was during the 2 hours that she could not get hold of me.

So what?? Don't monitor her reactions now. You're a long way from the time you need to do that. Can you just be the new you and NOT monitor or check on anything, for say, 100 days? Can you commit to not checking over your shoulders for that long? I think you may need to renew that in 100 days but at least do it for that long without monitoring. The monitoring sort of negates a lot of the forward progress. 100 days... It's not that long. But it's a minimum if you want her to notice AND trust the changes AND you need to stop the monitoring anyhow, for your sanity. Won't it be great when SHE reacts in a new positive way and makes you notice it, instead of you having her behavior under the microscope 24/7??

Do your "to do" list and stay at it. It's a great action plan for living well. If you do it, there's no way you'll have regrets. You have clarity now. So all you need is the diligence to follow it. Be a little brave and stick to it. The pursuing and obsessing has harmed your cause, so don't keep doing what doesn't work. You're smart enough to know this now. You can make your list a bit shorter/briefer and carry it around with you if you like. I did. I taped some music for my "theme" song and kept myself motivated with all the gimmicky ways I could. It helped. It worked. That's all that matters.

25yearsmlc I really admire your advice... I hope I'm not out of line for asking... Can you stop by my thread and give me some input... I'm a bit lost in my current situation and no idea what to do at this point.

where is your thread or the start of it? Sometimes when I have to hunt it down it's really time consuming. But I will when I get a chance, if you target the search it helps!

Denver

First of all 25 is dead on. Listen and it looks like you have.

That is one wise friend you talked to .

And a good list you have made. I made such a list too.

The hardest things is to LIVE it every single day.

You have reached a point where most people say:

"I didn't get what I wanted and she is treating me like a doormat. I will not be disrespected this way!"

I have said many times. You are a doormat if you think you are a doormat. Walking away because you believe you are a doormat doesn't change that. It reinforces it.

Walking away because your W is disrespecting you doesn't change the fact that you feel disrespected. It reinforces it.

Being responsible for yourself. Living your life for what YOU want takes a lot more courage and is the fire in which the steel is forged (nickel J3B and Helen Keller).

It is easy to walk through hell knowing what you seek will be given to you on the other side.

Harder when you are not guaranteed it.

Which man are you? Which man do you aspire to be?

Which man can walk on from this in his life without regrets if his M is not saved?

You must face your biggest fear to achieve your goal here Denver and know that whatever the outcome, there is no other way to get to your goal if you truly understand what it is.

Ha ha I was going to ask 25 to check out my threads also.

Denver, 25 gave you excellent advice. Listen to it.
I know it's hard. We all know it's hard, but I firmly believe you CAN do this.

A lot of the things 25 said I could apply to my sitch as well.

Excellent, excellent advice.