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Mindreading. Personally, I think she wants you to SEDUCE her, and she wants to see if "it" -- or at least a spark of "it" -- is still there. I think many of the other pieces of the puzzle have been coming together for her, but that maybe the "in love" feelings still aren't there (made worse by the fact that she kept in contact with OM for so long, and may still) and she doesn't want to commit to the marriage if she's going to feel platonically toward you.

I think you need to step up to the plate, and build some sexual tension between the two of you, Denver. Make your convos with her 90% less frequent, but the ones you DO have, you need some flirtation, and more importantly you need to ACT.

Put more succinctly: you need to get your "mojo" back, man.

Starsky

Denver, you know more than anyone what you need to do, you just need to DO IT! You mentioned it yourself several times, you are becoming impatient. That is completely understandable, but you need to find the strength to get the patience back.

Back to the basics here. GAL! You said you have seen her pretty much every day. That does not leave much time for YOU. Start doing some things for yourself. This will help get that patience back.

AVOID R talk. I don't think rehashing all of the problems is helping. Try to keep conversations enjoyable. When R talk does come up, go back to listening more and saying less. You have told her your feelings many times. She knows, saying them over and over only brings up negative feelings.

Absolutely drop the OM stuff. She needs to process that on her own. Again listen more, say less. You're not going to talk her out of her feelings. Don't be an enemy to them.


I suggest you go back and re-read your own threads. Look at what you were doing, what was working. Find that patience again.

BASICS!

180's
GAL
Avoid R talk
Validate
No pressure!


I know you have this in you. Do it Denver!

My dear friend, Denver:

Here are my observations/suggestions:

I agree with some of the other comments about the pursuing thing. I think you need to back up just a bit and not try to push so hard. Let her come to you. When she questions if your changes are the real deal, maybe you can say something like I know it's hard to believe but this is truly who I am now. Short and sweet but basically throwing it back at her to really weigh taking that risk or not. It will give her some serious food for thought at best because she will be thinking if indeed these changes are permanent like he says, I just may have alot to lose here. Know what I mean?

Also, in terms of her bringing up the OM. If I'm being too blunt, I apologize in advance. I always have all my BITS best interest at heart. She will always defend him because it's not about the relationship she had with him but it's how he made her feel. Having said that, that is somewhat an illusion because he knows what he was competing against. And he will do whatever it takes to sway her his way. It's his job (for lack of a better term) to make him look like the better choice. At the end of the day, just keep in mind that thru all the smoke and mirrors, he will never share the history like you both have, nor will he ever know her and your SS on the same level you do. You can't compete with that no matter how hard you try; no matter how hard you sway. And she will see that.

In terms of MC, it's great that she has finally conceeded to go. Just remember when you start any kind of C, there is no turning back in facing stuff you don't want to head on, being called out on stuff you don't want to hear. But, that is the only way you BOTH can get to the otherside. It's trying to regain that balance of self-growth for EACH of you. If your W was still not willing to go to MC and start experiencing some self-growth for HERself, then you do realize your M would not work. There would still be a major imbalance.

Lastly, I would suggest that the next time she wants to see you, tell her that you can't because something suddenly came up or whatever. I think she needs to miss you more. You have become a little too comfortable again. She knows that you are going to be there whenever she wants you to be there. So, mix it up a little bit; make the thrill of the chase a little more exciting for the both of you.

I think you are doing a great job. Keep it up and you still inspire us not matter what the ups and downs are with your sitch.

Sending HUGS!

I quickly grazed through your latest update.

And I am confused. W spends time with me almost every day. She says that she enjoys talking to me and spending that time with me. That she fears losing me if she makes the wrong decision. That she loves me and always has... and that I feel like 'home' to her.

Wow this is confusing. With the above you'd think your wife might just wanna run and come back to you. I could be talking crazy here. My wife does not say any of this. In-fact she does not even want to talk to me about anything other than stupid D details. In spite of that I am trying not to lose hope. Denver, i think you are close to that proverbial hill in your sitch. Keep pushing yourself man. You will get there. Keep the faith.

Hi Denver,

It's the toughest thing for a man to let a woman get all of her words out that have to do with feelings and every little thought. While you do have to LISTEN, and you have--you don't have to put so much weight on every word. I know that's really hard when you are really listening. And more conversations will still drain you a bit.

But--you did some good things and actually, this talk was a baby step.

1) You made her feel safe to talk and get out her feelings.
2) You actually listened.
3) You made her feel safe to keep doing the same and let her be ambivalent.

What you want to do most in judging your progress is to WATCH HER ACTIONS.

She's initiating spending time with you. That's incredibly major.

I know this doesn't FEEL like a bonus weekend. But it was. This is NOT the point where you back off and she misses you more. This is the point where you stay consistent. Consistently the new old you that she trusts. No knee-jerk pull back.

SO true! Classic Mars- and Venus-speak.


Starsky

CS - Thank you man. You are giving me the same advice that I would be giving to you or anyone else under the same circumstances. It is sometimes harder to see the forest from the trees when dealing with my own situation.

I have been very diligent and focused with being patient for almost 5 months now. The past week, however, has really tested my resolve and strength to continue being patient. I have slipped a bit 3 or 4 times with my W and acted the opposite of what I think that she needs now.

You are right. I need to find the strength and the focus to do what has worked for me... patience and time.



Again, you are right. And I realized this on April 1 when I kind of went off on her about him. I haven't brought it up since, but she has. I have just listened and not responded a whole lot. But it is the hurt that her words about OM have left me with that has caused me to lose patience.

No one said this was going to be easy.

Thanks again man.

BITS
Denver

DG, Gypsy, Karma - Thanks for your words of support. I am down, but not out. I'm going to refocus and move forward.

BITS
Denver

Thanks DB. W says that she thinks that we need to continue to have these conversations. But god it IS sooo draining bc some of the words sting a lot. I know that I need to watch her actions and not focus so much on her words. But I can't help but feel that she is losing some internal struggle within herself about working on M. At the same time, I have a hard time envisioning her walking away unless I revert to old behaviors.

I've listened to both you and Lotus. While had already considered what Lotus is telling me now, I think that my best course of action is to continue being consistent and refocus myself on being patient.

While I do worry that I am being too available to my W and am pursuing her too strongly right now, I worry more that pulling away to see if she will draw closer will only validate her concerns that I have not truly changed and will eventually revert back to old behaviors. That interpretation of my actions by her would be devastating to my situation. I can't risk that right now and I think that it is a strategy that I can save for a later time IF things take more of a turn for the worse.

Thanks again DB!

BITS
Denver

D10.

From reading your long post some things stood out to me.

Is your W still in contact with OM?

Sounds as if your W is feeling what my W did when we started to date again.
They are very confused.

You need to pull back and regroup.

Start acting more mysterious around her.
Women like excitement and mystery.

Sounds to me as if she isn't attracted to out right now, you're classified as a friend.
Not a bad thing, but you want more right now.

so what's up with OM?