That said, I still stand by my comments above. Compassion is needed in these situations, however, that does not mean we have to agree with the actions of the WAS. Like I said, I understand that she would not have walked away from a healthy R, but it is also not an excuse to have an A. I think there is a line there between understanding and compassion and making excuses for what the WAS is doing.
I hope you don't think that is what I am doing?
Originally Posted By: Country_Song
An A is never an appropriate, healthy or positive response to the problems in a M. We all know here that there is another choice. Even if the choice becomes leaving the M, there are better ways to handle the situation.
You are preaching at the choir brotha. FTR, I did not say or imply that it was. The point I am trying to make is that her decision to do so it outside of your control, and is within her rights as an adult human being. Right or wrong? Well, we're not debating here, we all know where we stand on that.
I say you may as well focus on what you can control, and just be very careful with the thought of "she's wrong" ... "I never cheated" ... while all true, they can very easily lead you down the path towards superior thinking and/or victimhood. How do I know? I took that trip. Trust me, you don't want to go there - the food is crap and it's far too expensive
Listen, I'm in the trenches just like you, and no, I didn't like what happened to my life anymore than you do. But there are some hard truths that we, as LBS parents, must face. I agree that you should not do anything to make her life easier, but I also think you need to be careful to not let rightousness get between you and doing what's right by your daughter sometimes too. Just be careful. It's a fine line. Sometimes doing what's best for your daughter might look an awful lot like "making her life easier", I know it does to me. But always check your motivations and intentions.
I read and heard at a provincially offered parenting from two homes course something that stayed with me. The gist of it was this ...
So ... I'm curious. Let's say you W has the epiphany we all hope for ... says and does all the right things (and btw, reconciliation rarely or never looks like the movie sequence we envision) ...
... if/when that happens ... who is CS now? What kind of partner is he? What's changed?
Peace PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
The LBS usually has a very hard time dealing with the difference between the WAS leaving the marriage and the now altered parental relationship. In most cases, the WAS has not LEFT the children, just changed the relationship as a result of the logistics of leaving the marriage.
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
The LBS usually has a very hard time dealing with the difference between the WAS leaving the marriage and the now altered parental relationship. In most cases, the WAS has not LEFT the children, just changed the relationship as a result of the logistics of leaving the marriage.
Hi PEI,
I agree with most of what you said in your two posts above. It's very easy for a LBS to get into "woe-is-me," and into self-righteousness, and lose sight of their own contributions to the dysfunction in the marriage.
However I disagree with the above quote, at least when there's an ACTIVE affair going on with the spouse who's walking away. Affairs are HIGHLY addictive, and I'm sorry, I do not feel that "in most cases," it's merely a matter of "logistics" that has changed with the cheating spouse. Most of the cases I've observed on this and other forums, there is some REALLY crappy parenting going on, and the person engaged in the affair really does stop putting their kids first the way they used to. There's a strong "entitlement" streak that runs thru adulterous relationships, and a "Hey, this is MY turn now; I deserve to have some fun!" self-centeredness that is way-too-prevalent.
If there is no OM/OW, then I agree with the quote above.
You're right PEI, focusing on the "right or wrong" does not help us move forward, and is not productive to our own personal growth. I have been focusing too much on it, it is out of my control. I need to get back to focusing on what I do control.
Originally Posted By: PEImom_of_3
The LBS usually has a very hard time dealing with the difference between the WAS leaving the marriage and the now altered parental relationship. In most cases, the WAS has not LEFT the children, just changed the relationship as a result of the logistics of leaving the marriage.
I guess the “just” part is what I disagree with here. I know that from the WAS’s perspective they are only leaving the M and not the children. I know my W does care very much for our D. It just isn’t a “just” though. The hard facts are that this new relationship means not being there for your child when they need you. It means giving up time with your child so they can have that time with OP. It means robbing the child of a 2 parent household.
I know, there I go again. That reality is hard for me to accept. It is hard for me to imagine how they justify this is their minds. But, back to above. Out of my control. I know, mustn’t dwell on it.
Originally Posted By: PEImom_of_3
... if/when that happens ... who is CS now? What kind of partner is he? What's changed?
A much calmer person is the first thing that comes to mind. A person who finally accepts his demons. While far from conquered, committed to doing so. A person who appreciates the good in life in a whole new way, and isn’t committed to only focusing on the negatives (I know, wouldn’t know it from my post above, but day to day is much better). A person who would put his family above everything else. A person who would be committed to not only loving, but making sure the love is communicated in the way she understands.
I have a long way to go however. I have my path drawn, but there is still a long road ahead needed to be walked. But I am still committed to doing so.
BITS
Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
But there are some hard truths that we, as LBS parents, must face. I agree that you should not do anything to make her life easier, but I also think you need to be careful to not let rightousness get between you and doing what's right by your daughter sometimes too. Just be careful. It's a fine line. Sometimes doing what's best for your daughter might look an awful lot like "making her life easier", I know it does to me. But always check your motivations and intentions.
You’re right; this can be a tough balance. We definitely need to put our children first, even if it might not look like DB’ing.
Quote:
But always check your motivations and intentions.
This is the key right here. Something to always consider. I have to admit, my intentions of not giving my W updates this weekend were mixed. On one hand after our conversation Friday I needed to put her out of my mind as much as possible. But secondly, I do admit that I wanted her to feel the reality of her not being there for our D while she is sick.
BITS
Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
The LBS usually has a very hard time dealing with the difference between the WAS leaving the marriage and the now altered parental relationship. In most cases, the WAS has not LEFT the children, just changed the relationship as a result of the logistics of leaving the marriage.
Hi PEI,
I agree with most of what you said in your two posts above. It's very easy for a LBS to get into "woe-is-me," and into self-righteousness, and lose sight of their own contributions to the dysfunction in the marriage.
However I disagree with the above quote, at least when there's an ACTIVE affair going on with the spouse who's walking away. Affairs are HIGHLY addictive, and I'm sorry, I do not feel that "in most cases," it's merely a matter of "logistics" that has changed with the cheating spouse. Most of the cases I've observed on this and other forums, there is some REALLY crappy parenting going on, and the person engaged in the affair really does stop putting their kids first the way they used to. There's a strong "entitlement" streak that runs thru adulterous relationships, and a "Hey, this is MY turn now; I deserve to have some fun!" self-centeredness that is way-too-prevalent.
If there is no OM/OW, then I agree with the quote above.
Starsky
Hey Starsky, good to see ya!
I didn't say they were good parents. The point I was trying to make is that they ARE still parents, they have not given up that role. We, the LBS, tend to attach the spouse and parent role as though they are the same thing. I was paraphrasing from the parenting course I took, and I did the psychologist no justice by being so brief (so there y'all, I won't make that mistake again ). Bottom line IMO is that we need to detach the roles.
Crappy parents? Who a WAS? NO. Really ... lol, so a little sarcasm here but honestly, nobody's gonna hand out parent of the year awards to any of our WAS/MLCers ... including me. My own stbxH was/is very selfish, and although I don't think he would consciously make choices that are not in the best interest of our kids he is wearing "love goggles", and those goggles blur his once clear vision. That blurry vision will have consequences, and he'll have to live with them.
Peace PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
However I disagree with the above quote, at least when there's an ACTIVE affair going on with the spouse who's walking away. Affairs are HIGHLY addictive, and I'm sorry, I do not feel that "in most cases," it's merely a matter of "logistics" that has changed with the cheating spouse. Most of the cases I've observed on this and other forums, there is some REALLY crappy parenting going on, and the person engaged in the affair really does stop putting their kids first the way they used to. There's a strong "entitlement" streak that runs thru adulterous relationships, and a "Hey, this is MY turn now; I deserve to have some fun!" self-centeredness that is way-too-prevalent.
If there is no OM/OW, then I agree with the quote above.
Starsky
Hi Starsky,
What did you P off the wrong person and get put back on moderation? This post wasn’t here when I replied before.
Anyways, this is also an interesting point. The thing is, I cannot observe her with our D to know how much has really changed in her parenting. I have a hard time believing she is not being a good mother in most ways, I know she does still care about our D very much. With all of that said, I have noticed things. Small things, but still, signs that she does not put our D first like she did before her A. These are just a couple of things that happened recently:
Even though our D was not feeling well, she was not planning on picking her up early from daycare until I said something. I KNOW, that before this, she would have been all over it. She would have picked her up as early as she possibly could have. Now…
Same day, after picking her up she did not stop by the house and pick up her medicine. Said “she’s fine.” Did she do this because she wanted to rush back to be with OM. Is it due to an uncomforting feeling of being in our home? I have no idea. But I do know that it was a strange decision. It surprised me when I heard it. Well, low and behold, D gets sick again that night and I end up rushing her medicine over to her (I now regret that decision, but I felt I was doing what was best for our D).
Little things like this I notice. While like I said, I believe she is still a good mom, there is just something different there. Before the A she always put D first. Now I just see her not being quite as committed as she was before. It is just so sad to see.
BITS
Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
That said, I still stand by my comments above. Compassion is needed in these situations, however, that does not mean we have to agree with the actions of the WAS. Like I said, I understand that she would not have walked away from a healthy R, but it is also not an excuse to have an A. I think there is a line there between understanding and compassion and making excuses for what the WAS is doing. An A is never an appropriate, healthy or positive response to the problems in a M. We all know here that there is another choice. Even if the choice becomes leaving the M, there are better ways to handle the situation.
Ok … so ….
Originally Posted By: CS
Originally Posted By: 2step
Did you give her pants back?
Of course, first thing in the morning before I left.
Things went further than I had intended/expected. I guess alcohol can do that.
I'm sorry CS, what did you expect could happen while drinking alcohol with an attractive member of the opposite sex, YOU MET ON A DATING SITE, while you are emotionally vulverable? If this didn't have red flags all over it I don't know what would. There are reasons GALing at a time like this makes sense with same-gendered friends or groups.
Listen, I didn’t like it when it was said to me, anymore than you’re going to like it as I say it to you. It’s about time to stop focusing on her A, why, well, let’s call a spade a spade … you’ve had your own. I’m not judging you CS, trust me, I’m in no place to and it’s not my job. I also know the string of rationalizations and justifications that you want to send in my direction … she did it first … she checked out … why can’t I have some love and attention … it was just sex … I was drunk … I didn’t mean for it to happen … I got carried away. I know them because I used many of them myself.
It doesn’t change the fact that you are married and want to save this thing. YOUR actions need to align with WHO you are, not what you feel someone else has done TO you.
Peace PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
I have admit PEI, I am very impressed that you found that! I really appreciate you participating in my sitch and I know you are giving me some really good advice, so thank you.
I am not going to try to justify my actions. They are wrong, I know that. All I can do is work to make better choices in the future.
You're right that I need to stop focusing on the A. It isn't helping a thing at this point. It's funny, you would think things would just continue to get easier, but instead I find myself in a worse spot than I was a month ago. Maybe I just let my guard down.
BITS
Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
What did you P off the wrong person and get put back on moderation? This post wasn’t here when I replied before.
Yeah, you'd think with over 730 posts in five months, I'd be let out of the hooskow, but I guess I'm a special case. I think it's cuz I recommended exposing the affair to someone, or maybe I mentioned another marriage help book or website. In any event, lesson learned.
This post wasn’t here when I replied before.