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Oh come down off your highhorse, Harrier.

He said he wanted that conversation to go really well and wanted an opinion about it. I never told him that he should tollerate an A.




Well, I don't have a twisted mind, nor do I have OM. But, I think I qualify a little bit in telling the LBH how most WAW in an A would feel toward some things said or done by him. If that makes you mad or you don't agree, fine.....but you don't have to be offensive.

Hey friends, don't make me send my W over there to settle this. (that was an attempt at a little self-depreciating humor....)

Surely this is a painful topic for many of us. I find it interesting though that we agree: the best option is to somehow have a conversation, at the right time, without seeming weak. And if that can't be done and I decide to do it anyway I have to be prepared for a possible setback. I just have to decide it's worth it.

CS, to answer your question: sure, my W is the dominant in our M. Not that I'm weak - friends and coworkers describe me as being calm, confident, and in control - she just develped coping strategies early in life that include being in charge, never slowing down, and avoiding feelings. So the minute one let's their guard down bam she's in the lead. Doesn't hurt that she's very cute. One reason her relationship with other men may interest her (and trouble me) is that this is the first man who, by virtue of his position, dominates her and has the power.

You're right - this is something to work on....

I don't want you to think I'm telling you to suck it up and endure an affair. I have tried to tell you what would probably happen to some of the things you suggested doing or saying.

From my own experience and from the stories I've read on the board, a WAW in an A is not going to sit down and talk it out nicely. It will not end well. What it will do is bring things to a head and she will tell you she wants a D. So, be fully prepared to hear her say that and to see her at her worst.

When you use the word "endure", exactly what do you believe you are enduring? An affair right under your nose? Being made a fool by your boss? They seem to be flaunting it in everyone's face and do not seem concerned that there will be any consequences for their behavior.

You say you will not leave. So, let's look at the other option. First of all, you need evidence of an A if at all possible. If you can get into her computer or phone....I think you could get it. Is there anyone that went on that trip that would tell you how she conducted herself?

Approaching her with a conversation such as the one you gave for an example is out of the question. This calls for a bold, powerful, and completely surprised confrontation. You don't call her "honey" or try to soften anything you say. It is to hit hard and fast. It is to catch her off guard. She must see you standing tall and firm. If there was ever a time to snatch the pants from her and put them on...it's now.

Others may see you as the quiet & calm man, but I'd bet she sees you as passive. Women are disgusted at passive men and can gobble them up for lunch! She doesn't respect you any longer, and it's time you got that respect back, starting with this confrontation.

You ask her one time if she is having an emotional or physical affair with the boss. You do not add anything more to that question. If she says they're just friends, don't accept that as an answer. If she asks why you think so or don't you trust her, etc., you go back to your original question. Tell her you want a plain yes or no answer. No matter how she tries to steer the conversation, hold your ground and bring it back to wanting an answer to your question. Don't tell her where you got your information but if she denies an A, then tell her you know she's lying. Again, never reveal your source of information b/c she will go deeper underground and shut that source off.

If you want to continue in the M, then you can ask her one time if she is willing to leave this place of employment and find another one, stop the A, and work on the M. If her M and family is first place....she will agree to do it. If not, then she will not leave her job. The M won't survive. She's made her choice.

Since she is the one that has been unfaithful, then she should be the one to move out. You could tell her she has two weeks to find a place to stay and she can talk to you through your lawyer. Then end the conversation.

I don't think she will stop her job and therefore, I don't think she will end the A right now. So, that puts the ball in your park. If she's having an A, do you want to stay and try to be a better man and hope that your changes will be enough? Can you live with her knowing she's having an A? Or, do you confront her and let her know you will not tolerate it? I personally think that creep of a boss needs to be reported to his boss about the kind of behavior he has used toward you in the workforce (making you look bad to other employees) and of course, with your W. It sure didn't help her respect you any more. But, that's just me.

Your W is making a fool out of herself, you, the M, and her family. If she refuses to end it, then you can walk away......or expose the affair.......or stay where you are now. One day she will probably wake up and wonder why she did this. Sometimes A's go for 6 months....and sometimes years. So, there are options....but you have to be the one to choose b/c you know what you can do or can't do with your life. That's why I often time ask newcomers what they are willing to live with and what they won't live without.

((hugs))





[edited by dbmod to add note: exposing the affair can be dangerous to your marriage. It is noted that sandi2 is not recommending that, but the note is added so you understand the risk.]

Geez Sandi.

calm down, no one was attacking you.

SL cam on here looking for advice on what he proposed. Your "advice" was to say he still sounded weak. In fact you seem to suggest that his type of conversation was worthless because of their past. Nothing more, as you didn't really offer much else.

Secondly, if you took the time to read what I wrote and not feeling like a victim. You'll note the "twisted mind" I was referring to was NOT YOU, but SL's Wife. I'm sorry but WASs do have a twisted sense of reality.

As for your last lecture, (talk about a high horse) look I get that you have a "unique" perspective on things and are willing to share, but you have NO IDEA on what it feels like to have this done to you.
But more to the point. I've always taken anything you said with a grain of salt. I think you are qualified in talking about your experience as a WAW with your OM. But that doesn't make your experience the exact same for everyone or every WAS. It is helpful and yes the board is thankful.

I just think you are still miffed at me because of something I said a while ago.

Okay, Sandi.

Sorry if that came off sounding angry with you. You were the first person to respond to me, those months ago. You've given me (and others solid direction) and your presence here is invaluable.

peace

I would count myself as a budding success story BTW

Well, thanks Harrier. Maybe this is a good place to just say good-bye since what I say isn't worth anymore than that. I have been under the false impression that maybe I could help, but if that's the way it's viewed, I could use my time in other ways.

Good-bye

Guys, never underestimate the positive of a good debate. Differences of opinion are not a bad thing, they stimulate thought. Truths are discovered by questioning, not merely accepting that our first impressions are reality.

Seriously? you are pulling this? Out of all the stuff I wrote, you pull out one line.

Honestly, I thought you had a thicker skin than that. Advice is just that advice. It's not facts, it's not bright lines, its not like stare decisis.

Look I'm sure you area great person and like I said multiple times you work here and perspective is invaluable to ALL. And I don't doubt for a minute that you need this place as much as it needs you.

But, and I'm not going to pull punches here, you are just pouting now. If your commitment to these fine folks and this place can be unhinged by one comment, I don't know what to say.

How about you just go back to ignoring me.

Hi again. Sandi2 and Harrier, I really value the advice you've given me. I think you both understand my situation from different points of view, mine (Harrier, our situations are pretty similar) and perhaps my Ws (Sandi2, your insight has been correct so far). One of the greatest things about this board is that we challenge each other, instead of automatically agreeing like many of our close friends would because they see us suffering. I need the advice, especially they painful kind. Don't go away - I've seen both of you offer great support and inspiration here.

By the way your advice is, in the end, very similar. And I have to say you're probably right on the money. I'm planning to take your advice to (1) postpone the confrontation for a litle while (ala Sandi2), (2) build up my position in the relationships (good point, Country Song), three (3) have the confrontation in a direct way and not be afraid of it (thanks, Harrier).

You all know I've been reading some Taoist stuff lately. I don't know what these stories really mean, but they seem to calm me down....perhaps this will make up for my awful humor last night.

A sage and his student were in a tavern when a heated argument broke out between two men. Later, one of the men approached the sage, described his argument, and asked what the sage thought. The sage thought for a long time and replied "You are absolutely right".

Afterward, the other man came to see the sage, explained his case, and the sage thought before replying "You are absolutely right."

The student was confused and that evening questioned his master, saying "Master you heard both men's arguments - and told then they were both right. That's not possible!"

To which the sage responded "Yes, you are absolutely right."

I hope Sandi2 doesnt leave this board. She has offered excellent advice to many that are here.

Harrior< i think I understand you point of view that LBS should not be doormats to their WAW's but I think that the arguement got heated over miscommunication.


Again , i repeat myslef, even If Sandi does not respong to my posts at times, She is AWESOME here and I always read what she has to say on other posts. I hope she doesnt go away.

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