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FMV..

I have done a lot of reflection on this (along with the lack of physical affection from her for a while) I have learned to be patient only by examining why I was impatient in the first place. So I do see the value. The short explanation is that when I don't hear it back I get afraid or threatened. When that happens, my reaction is to get angry.

I know all this. However something about hose 3 little words is such a flash point with me. Twice this has happened. I rather not risk it right now. I can show her how I love over and she can do the same for me.

It doesn't mean I will never say it.

Hi Harrier, anger is an interesting reaction to feeling afraid or threatened. Why do you think that this happens for you? What do you think is it about being afraid actually makes you angry?

Well, anger in response to a threat is probably just an offshoot of my sympathetic nervous system reaction - increase heart rate, breathing, etc.

i wouldn't say it's a reaction 100% of the time.

seuqence of events
1. I attached a meaning to her not saying IlY back. 2. the meaning is clearly that she doesn't love me (now I know this is irrational) 3. When I don't get that reassurance I have a physical reaction. 4. Sometimes that evolves into anger - partially at myself and her.

Anger probably allows me to harness something inside that othe reactions can't.

Harrier here text to you is awesome! Nice work....

I was just in the car for a couple of hours and had some time to think. I was thinking about the following things that I learned over in newcomers months and months ago.

(a) Someone (Coach, I think) said that: thoughts lead to feelings and feelings lead to actions.

(b) They also said: Their actions will tell you what they THINK and their words will tell you what they FEEL.

(btw, I take "actions" in A to mean Big Actions and Actions in B to mean smaller day-to-day actions.)

Now, if I follow this logic, that means:

Thoughts (what she does day-to-day) ==> to Feelings (what she says) ==> Actions (the bigger ones)

W has been acting in a day-to-day way towards me great for a while now, but as you'll recall from my griping, there's been nothing physical (i.e the bigger actions). In the last week or so, there have been a couple of times where her WORDS have been coming back (i.e. the "my man" comment from yesterday, calling me "honey" a couple of times, etc). Nothing big, but still. Maybe now, I have my chart that I can plot progress on! Some of you will slam me for that, but it works for me! I need to see it!

You think? IDK. I don't think anger is usually just a physical reaction - it's an emotion. And there's usually pain underneath it.


The flipside being that anger allows people to AVOID feeling something painful, that the other reactions can't 'protect' us from. Anger sometimes gives people the illusion of feeling powerful, less helpless, and more in control, at the times when they feel the least so.

The problem of course is that it's an illusion. It's not real. Being real and honest with our deeper feelings in our relationships, is what gives us (as a team with our partners, of course) more power, more control and more influence over the direction our lives take and the kind of people and partnership we want to have. Just my perspective.

Rough last 24 hrs. I need to journal/vent.

Thankfully, it has all been internal and my W is pretty happy with things.

do you guys every have moments of sheer panic? Sometimes my mind just goes off in a very dark direction and it colors my whole view of things. I don't know if it is just part of the healing process or not.

What is bugging me. In case you don't remember my W had a short lived EA, with this guy who was her mentor. It never got really intense with this guy and the most she said to him was that she had a strong attachment to him. She never said she loved him nor did they make secret plans to run away, etc. (I read their emails) She also texted him only about 1-2 times per day on average, didn't call him outside of work hours, only had emails in bunches like 5 one day then nothing for a week. I say this not to minimize the EA, but just to give you some background.
She has told me that he was an escape from the problems in our marriage at the time.

In early Dec., she decide to cut off for while to work on the M.
She refused to cut off all contact with him because they work in a small field, she knew they had an upcoming project and would talk, and she said what happened scared her as to what she could lose if things progressed with this mentor.

In mid Jan., she starts communication with him again, for the project. They have to have a meeting or 2 (with other people also). My W has been hit or miss on telling me these things.
They have communication on and mostly off through last week. I don't know the extent of it as I don't have access to her email.

The last couple of weeks, he's kinda screwed her over professionally on a couple things and I think she was very upset about it.
So she tells me that she's handing off the project to someone else and she probably will rarely seem him now. But she thought that he was freezing her out because of the past EA issue. She wanted to clear the air with him because he is an important professional contact. I was against the idea, but didn't say anything.
Then on Monday she says that she decided against the talk and basically her email to him ended with Maybe, I'll see you around sometime. he works someplace else 4/5 days of the week.

But my mind is going crazy about it.
1. She never fully explained the extent of the EA. She has apologized.
2. While she didn't do everything I asked for in Dec., she has done so now. I think she had to come to this idea on her own and it helped that we were progressing.

So I have these crazy thoughts about the extent of the EA. Maybe it was physical and she didn't tell me, maybe she was deeply in love with him and didn't tel me.
Then I have crazy thoughts about now like maybe she's going to start it up again, maybe she's going to leave me for him this time, maybe she's starting PA with him now (as we are not ML)

Now I have no evidence for any of these thoughts, yet I still have them. Last night there were so bad I couldn't eat and thought I was going to puke.

My W has said ILY 2x over the past 3 days. Why am I feeling this? the problem also is that it interferes with my ability to handle the limit physical affection.

I just need to get this out. thoughts would be appreciated.

Harrier,
I think it's perfectly normal to have those panic flashes under the circumstances. In my sitch, I did read some texts and wish I'd never seen them, much worse sounding than what you described. My W also hasn't broken off contact w/ OM, but I don't believe the EA is ongoing. It's hard for us knowing they still interact with OM.

All those things you worry about your W and EA could be true, but most likely aren't. Again, the crazy thoughts are normal, but you have to get past them. Half of that is just knowing they're crazy thoughts.

A book that helped me process things better is "Not Just Friends." It covers both EA and PA from the standpoint of all the involved parties and does so in a non-blaming way. Maybe this book will help in your sitch. Good luck!

Harrier - one of those days for me too. Not as bad, but not having a great day. Weather around here stinks today. Lots of rain. W's traffic in the morning is always terrible when it rains, so she left in a hurry with just a "love you, bye" quick comment then out the door. I'm sure she was just dreading her drive, then she didn't call me this AM as she sometimes does. Again, she was probably late getting to work and didn't have time. On top of that, the bad weather just has me in a funk. I'm just bitching. No reason for me to be having a tough day, but I am.... I'll get over it. I'm just so tired of this process. I really want it to be over. But what choice do I have? The only way I get to the end it leads to a result that is terrible, so I guess I man up and keep going.

Also, doing a lot of second-guessing today too. If W doesn't want me, then why do I want her? Or does she want me? She asked me to come back, didn't she? But that was 4 months ago. But again, she's not shy about saying what she wants and certainly wasn't shy the first time she told me it was over, therefore if she wanted me gone, wouldn't she just say it again? Does her NOT saying that mean that she wants me there? Her mood and demeanor is much better now than it was pre-bomb. We get along great, but she can't bring herself to touch me. She tells me that she loves me, but she tells certain friends that too. Is her saying ILY just rote? Is her feeling of love the same as mine? How will I trust that she won't want to leave again down the road? When does my waiting and working become me being a pansy and when should I just call it quits? Is that Great marriage we all want just around the corner or will we never get there and waste years trying? Some say that it will take one month per year of marriage. Ok, that means 8 months, we're half way there. That's cool, I can make it but what happens when we get to 8 months and things are the same? Then we go 12? Then 18? Then 24? How long can I accept having this roommate that I love and want, but can't have? I don't want to pressure her or impose deadlines or ultimatums, but when do I say crap or get off the pot, honey?

Have things been improving?

It is HARD to see slow movement forward, but if you look at where you were you can see how far along you, she, both of you have come.

Second guessing I believe is healthy. Taking her back no matter what, or how she acts? I think is harmful.

Second guessing allows you to evaluate your wants. As long as you logical and do not become paralyzed by second guessing.


As for your question about her EA and how deep or if it had progressed to a PA?

Does it matter? That is not me being trite.
She is with you now and working on being married to you. Maybe not fast enough for you, but seems that she is.

Knowing more details or digging in the past, is that going to help you right now? Some answers you just don't need to know in order to achieve your goals.

My wife for sure as the sun is in the sky right now had one affair. Do I suspect another one happened as well at the time? Yes pretty positive.
Do I need to know that for sure?
Knowing that doesn't help me be married in the here and now.
And she hasn't shown any reason for me to believe she doesn't want to be married.

X,
Does her love match yours?
Not likely, but loving someone isn't about, "I'll only love you if you love me back. 50-50"
Her effort is there man.

You mention trust, as in how can you trust she won't walk away again.
Well...I bet she has a similar fear about you falling back into old patterns. How can she trust you won't?

You're showing her right? And she, seems to be slowly showing you as well.

If you love someone, you give them the ability to hurt you like no other person, but you trust they won't.

JTB.

I was hoping you'd respond, so thanks.

The issue is I don't know if it matters or not. I could see myself going both ways. If she declare here undying love for the OM and wanted to run away with him, I don't know how I'd react.

If it was a PA, I think I'd honestly puke, so that's one think that is different. I don't know if I could recover from that. I don't think I could if she continued only the cavalier path she had been on

I know I have to come to these answers on my own.

I think about that all the time. She is with me, we go to sleep in the same bed every night. We have laughs and she recently started opening up more to me. But she did all that stuff during the height of the EA too.

I guess now she knows what she did was wrong and is working on the M.

My Therapist had a good way to frame the OM. H wasn't the OM, he was "Not-Harrier".

I agree that I don't need to know details now, unless it's a detail that preventing us from working on the M. (Like she's planning to run away with the OM.) I worry because she talks of being able to compartmentalize her life. Like she could have one part that is committed to working on the marriage and another part that is committed to the EA as well. Totally separate parts, not interfering with each other. People do this all the time. Of course things are better between us when she went down that route and I do see her sharing her work alot more with me than before.

However, I do feel the need to know more details at some point. I think many books on affairs suggest that the person with the A have to basically answer any questions from the other spouse.

I take it you never had one of these talks with our W. What I would propose, is that when our marriage is stronger. We set aside 10-15 min for me to ask whatever question I want and she has to be 100% honest. Then put it to bed after that.
I would to get her to agree to this with the idea in my own head that I probably never have that convo.

maybe that's dumb. I already wish I didn't kow some of the things I do.