Hmmm. Sorry Sandi2, guess the anxiety was coming through a bit too much. And, dbmod - apologies for over-referencing that book - I'll be more general going forward.
To answer your question Sandi2, I've gotten conflicting messages about this. My first therapist felt that it was a combination of a very busy life and bona fide generalized anxiety - she was very nice but I found out later that she was a therapy postdoc and I was her first patient, so I don't know how much stock to put in that. When she transferred I switched therapists - new guy is also nice but seems to think that my reactions are normal given my situation. He does not think I have some sort of generalized anxiety.
Both suggested doing things for myself, not over reacting to Ws actions, exercising - all the stuff that the DBing books recommend. These things seem to be a win-win right? They all help.
I do think, however, that this - being sensitive to loss and unsure of relationships - has been a consistent part of my personality for my whole life. I wonder if it is childhood experience (certainly could be in my case) or just genetics. Let's face it, some of personality is just inborn. This is the primary obstacle between me and where I want to be with my M, and it would be the reason my W would have an A if that comes to pass.
During my life I've avoiding a few situations where I knew this would be a problem - and was doing great. This situation - 3 kids and a spouse with a full-time job with travel - I knew it would be tough for me and that's why I said no to having a third originally, until W said she was 100% committed to staying home while they were young. (I didn't WANT her to do this and tried to talk her out of it, but was so impressed with her resolve and commitment I agreed.)
I have trouble dealing with the situation and the the resentment of having the plans changed.
I really am here to save my M. The advice has been great and very helpful, and I'm in a better place with my M, even if there is an A. But in has been in the recent past a real problem in my M. It takes such effort and I've not been as good a F or H as I would be if I could get passed all this.
....long reply I suppose. Thanks for the reply Sandi2.
Well I know about inherited, but if it's possible, you can still control it. I am concerned that your resentment of having that third child will somehow be read by your behavior. I know you work really hard with the boys now, but kids feel their parents internal feelings. I mean, look at how often you have brought this explantion into your posts, and I'm not fault-finding...I'm just concerned. I know what it is to have a very strong resentment toward something that can't be undone!
I believe insecurity and resentment is more a matter of the heart/mind. Resentment is an attitude. I believe insecurity is a way of thinking.....just as resentment is. Apparently, but IDK, you were influenced by a person or in an environment that planted a seed of insecure feelings and over the years, you have watered and fed that seed until now....you have a big problem. BTW, I don't need to know your history about this. We just need to see how it's affecting you now.
Insecurity and resentment are two things that only you can control. But, thank God....you can control it!! So many things are dumpled on us in life that we don't have control. However, I think you see this problem of insecurity as an inherited problem that was dumped on you. At any rate, it's not too late and you can change this terrible grip that it has on your life.
You don't want three more men to suffer like you have, do you? Those sons are learning from you. You are teaching them that a man is never secure and to worry constantly about what tomorrow may hold. This is not a stable role model. I think that's what you may have lacked at some point growing up.
From a woman's POV, we want to feel that our man is secure in his own skin. We want him to give the sense of security to his family b/c he is the protector, provider, and leader. Whenever the roles are reversed and the W has to fill her role....and the role of the man, then the family unit is in serious trouble. She can offer her children a certain amount of security as their mother...but she and the children will look to their father for the tough stuff. The boys will learn the basics of what it means to be a man and a husband from their father.
So, whatever you have to do to get this problem under control...I think you need to do it. Find a therapist that has some experience.
(hugs)
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks for your post, and all of the others you've made. This thread has been a good place for me to share my situation and get some good feedback. I took a day to think about what you said before replying....
Letting go of the resentment I have has been a long process, going on a couple of years. Although I wish my W had been more understanding and supportive, getting over this really is something I need to do myself. The positive steps I've taken do pay off; my W does seem to like the changes a lot. I need to build on that.
Since you've been along with the ride I thought you might like to know some of the changes I've made over the winter, thanks in part to this site and what I've read. These are my DBing successes. The boys and I took our dog to obedience school, started guitar lessons, go hiking once a week, and begain getting all the neighborhood kids together on Sunday afternoons for ultimate frisbee games. We spent more time with my dad and some male friends. I encouraged my W to make some important decisions together and then made a point to celebrate those decisions, and stay very positive about them. I encouraged her to do her thing too. I did these things for me and my family, not to please my W (this was hard and you know I struggled with it). And not to compete with the other guy in her life.
My W seems to have noticed. When I tell her how wonderful she looks she giggles and accepts it instead of seeming skeptical of my motives. Even when there is tension, she seems to like the "new" way I approach it, matter-of-factly (though I'm not perfect with this, it's definately better). I'm not afraid to take the lead in family matters and my W has suprised me (no, SHOCKED me!) by actually LETTING me get in front a bit, instead of having to always be the one in charge. Some of this is new stuff I've learned, some is just the "old me" that had gotten lost. W seems to like the changes. (A LOT).
So this is the path to saving my M. The stuff going on inside - those are just obstacles....pretty big ones at times, they are painful and they can make me question my progress....but I'm learning what I need to do to get passed them.
Can't tell you how much I've appreciated the help here. A year ago, even 6 months ago, things were pretty bad. And throw W's boss into the picture and we were REALLY struggling. Better now. I'd say about half way back to where we should be. Hopefully W finds me and our family the better alternative; but if not at least I'll be able to handle it.
This last post from you is great! I like what you've been doing with the boys.
This statement shows how you are improving in your role as family leader:
Quote:
I'm not afraid to take the lead in family matters and my W has suprised me (no, SHOCKED me!) by actually LETTING me get in front a bit, instead of having to always be the one in charge.
Goes to show that most W's want their H to lead. Sometimes, it takes a while for the W to hand over the reigns if she's had to be the main leader for a long time. Mothers, especially, get into a habit of telling the kids what to do and making decisions for them....and if she's not careful, she'll be doing the same for her H.
IMHO, W's want to be treated as equal partners in the M, but at the same time, I think it's their born instint to want the H to be strong in his role also.
Keep up the good work!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I know it wounds like I am unusually stressed and anxious. But after A LOT of reflection I really think most (maybe not all) of my struggles are normal / reasonable reactions. My therapist agrees. My W is trying to balance an exciting, expanding career with a very busy home life. I have supported her in everyway possible but I can't do anymore, and her work life is very exciting and enticing. Part of me being more assertive means saying no the things I just can't do for her anymore - just out of concern for my health and the security of my job - and she gets really upset by that. We will make schedules or arrangements that work the best we can - agree to them - but they always change to suite her work. I can't rely on what she says. Setting boundaries is becoming very important, but also a difficult challenge.
You said it earlier - I have to expect the ups and downs. I walked away from a budding argument this morning about yet another conference she wants to attend, that would require me canceling one of mine (the first time I'll be away in a long while). I held firm, as nicely as I could.
Well, too much from me today.....hope you are well!
Woke up and can't sleep tonight. W leaving Saturday for a week on trip with office and boss. And is already pushing to extend other upcoming work trips. Expressed my concerns nicely but firmly about new, longer trips in future. W is doing it anyway. Says what's the problem if she gets her family to come up to help with the kids.
Am so lonely. I miss my W and how we used to be together in all of this. I miss the man I used to be, the one who was happy, fun, a better dad, and confident of my Ws love. Having trouble determining what is reasonable to expect. I know others must go through this but I don't know of ANY three kid two career couples, or anyone who has successfully worked out these issues with travel, trust, etc. Am I a Neanderthal who can't deal with a spouse who's career is taking off? Or am I the supportive spouse who is taken advantage of, and tired to exhaustion? Do I have trust issues? Or would any other spouse feel this way?
Keep reminding myself that I have seen progress with the dbing.
Remember your resolve to act as if you are moving on with your life and "will" be happy with or without her in it.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your W happiness and contentment. Show your W someone she would want to be around, somebody that is attractive and fun.
She may not notice right now b/c she is blind in this fantasy fog with OM, but at some point she will see you as the best option for her....if this is the route you want to pursue for your M.
I'm sure you must feel panicky right now b/c she's not covering up her feelings about this trip very well. I know you are concerned that it will turn into a PA, but remember that OM's W will be on that trip also, and she's going to keep a sharp eye on them. I believe that's why she went back to work is b/c she suspects her H flirting with your W.
If you can be cool and act as if this trip doesn't bother you b/c you are a confident man (not insecure in who you are) and you don't show any neediness, clinging, etc., right before she leaves...I believe it will be the best.
Now, some would advise that you give her an ultimatum, and some would call it a boundary...but I believe that if you do that, it's a sure way of chunking the M for good. You have to decide for yourself. Be honest with yourself and realize that no matter what you say to her...it will not prevent her from going on this trip. She has this trip as top priority and NOTHING is going to rank higher than that.
You might consider agreeing with some of the things she says. For instance when she brings up the fact that her parents can help with the children, you could tell her that's good b/c you will need some personal time. If she talks about future plans of more office trips...don't react, just stay cool b/c we never know what the future holds. It's almost like dangling bait in front of you when she talks about the trip...so you need to have something that you can leave the conversation and focus on something for you at that moment. This is like a life-saver for you. You need to think beforehand what you could do when she begins singing about this office trip. Don't let her see a H who is filled with fear, but rather a H who is nonchalant about the whole thing.
BTW, plan a lot of GAL while she's gone. Don't be too available to her when she makes contact....especially when her parents are there to babysit.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
