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Hi And thank you for spending the time checking in, means alot. Its difficult to know if its progress or not, as im sure your aware sometimes they pick you up and then drop you from a great height, im just being cautious i guess. Tonight no contact but saying that she called this afternoon to say she was still unwell and infact felt worse, she said she called just to inform me of that,i found that a bit strange, but didnt comment. I must admit that im unsure as to how to handle the little positives, but my gut feeling is to stay dark but its so difficult with these texts at night asking for a chat online, sometimes i feel less anxious when i dont talk to her, i guess its because i dont have to listen to bad news about her looking at houses and divorce, i know maybe thats wrong as one day i may well have to hear it. Im going to get to town and get the books for sure. Wife is due here weekend coming, but the strange thing is she hasnt mentioned it at all,now could be linked to how upset she got last time about me moving away close to one of my daughters, i agree i need to sit do some GAL thinking, inluding some real 180,s, and back in the dark from now again and wait, im sure this week i should recieve some divorce paperwork so could be a hard week, again thank you for your help....kevc

Hi All, A little venting time........I got a text today asking for a chat, i couldnt go online as i was out, so i text her back saying just that, then another text, happy valentines day, luv and hugs xxxxx, i didnt reply, then yet another text, i feel stupid as i bet your on a valentines date with someome.I text back, why feel stupid your only expressing your feelings, nothing wrong with that. Then i got a call, she was upset, said i was mean, hadnt wished her happy valentines day, why was i out in town, told me to ring her back when i got home, i rang her, she cried and couldnt understand why i hadnt wished her happy valentines day, long conversation but in a nut shell she needed to know i loved her still, but guess what.......Yes still wants divorce, i need some magic pills to cope here, what is she playing at....help....kevc

Bumping

Well had a bad night, she had rang me three times on my mobile which i missed then i took dog out for walk and when i got in she had rung house phone, in the day she had been offered a house but only if the daughter that is with me goes with her, my daughter refused so wife lost the house, she rang again and we spoke, said she wanted to sort maintenance, we had already spoke of this before it was obvious it was an excuse to get at me because the house hadnt gone her way. We spoke on face book and i got an ear full about it was all my fault and now she can only have a two bed, i just stayed calm, she continually questioned me about why i was out and that i must be seeing someone, im not i can assure you. She then wanted me to drive 60 miles today to take her out, i cant do it as daughter needs running about, she couldnt understand i had said no. I assured her there is no one else. She stated that the marriage must end several times, she also said how cut up she is but will go through with it.It seems that when i go dark she hates it and gets nasty, should i stop or what can i do, by the way i never go to town so as a 180 i went and had a coffee, shes totally confused with that....kevc

Kevc, I don’t really know what to say. I know this is hard. I am in it also. It seems as if your W is on a similar rollercoaster.

If I was getting little positives I’d acknowledge and validate her feelings, but stop short of anything that could be perceived as pursuing or needy. It is a fine line and I will probably fumble if I get a chance. I spent the entire V day with no contact.

If I do get a chance to go down this path with W, I’ll try and tell her I am still thinking about how the D impacts my feelings, that I have a different opinion about D being the answer to our problems, that I am not fighting the D, but I need to protect myself over the negative consequences.

Kevc, sorry if these posts got jumbled, you are probably still being moderated and there is a 5 or 6 hour difference in our time zones.

IMO she’s getting nasty because she is questioning her decision. I’d stay dark and give her space to work through these emotions.

Denver posted this list of DB rules he found. I copied it to a separate doc so I could read it whenever. Food for thought.

Reposted without permission sorry Denver and the original author

Here ya go:

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.

21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).

27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.

30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives becausehe/she is hurting and scared.

33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

Thank you so much in taking the time to do the above, i will read it over and over. Havnt posted as been a real roller coaster, she is staying this week at my daughters, she did plan on coming here for 3 days but although i am not sure why she backed out, i think eldest daughter complained that she had made arrangements already so my wife felt abliged to stay there for the full week. I stayed dark and desperatly tried to stop contact even to the point of asking for some space of my own, she flipped, rang the home phone, then my mobile, she cryed on the phone, she calmed down and said perhaps she should try and let go of me. She has text today asking for a day here and take the kids out, i had previously said i would like to take them while they were here, she said she wanted to come along, then another text saying she wants to come to the house to see me and the animals rather than just spend time out. Ok thats nice, so i said will collect her in the evening from my daughters bring her her she can then stay the night and we do cinema next day, that way i thought it would better, then another text...if you pick me up in the afternoon instead of the evening i can cook a nice meal, so i pull back, she pulls also but a little the other way, shes keeping me on a thread i think, if i try to distance she pulls me in, so hard to go dark, i feel like going really dark as i think although the pain will hurt so very much it just might help in the long run, then again i guess it could backfire and help her let go of me, what on earth shall i do. How can you go really dark to give them that extra space to sort things through when they wont let you, or if i try she gets upset, she fires back with i will learn to let go of you then if thats what you want, see i dont really want her to let go of me completly i just want her to have more space from me to think things through for herself, not kick me into touch, seems a fine line here, its nice she wants to see me, nice she wants to cook me a nice meal, what isnt nice is she wants this divorce. So complicated all this....kevc

Kevc, How are you doing?

Well what a half term week, as i said my wife was going to stay at my daughters, i had a call on Tuesday asking to run my daughter to the bank so i went over and did that, then my wife asked me to stay and she would cook dinner, which she did, had a nice evening, my wife gave me a hug and i left. Wednesday night i get a call from my wife asking if she could stay with me rest of week, i said yes we can take kids to cinema. She came over and said she wanted me to go to my daughters that day so she could just see me. Thursday she said she felt like getting her belongings from hostel and coming home, it was said in an unsure way, i just smiled. We ML rest of week and it was beautiful, then came Saturday, she was quiet, then bomb shell, my 9 year old who is staying with her had told my 16 year old who is with me that my wife had met a man for coffee, me 9 year old then told my wife she had told her, my wife then decided to tell me rather than my daughter telling me, i was calm and brushed it off, rest of day was back to being loving. Sunday i took her back to hostel, she was quiet said she now loved me alot, we said our goodbyes and i came home. My daughter told me when i came in that my wife had invited this man to my daughters who she stayed with to introduce them, and that why wife spoke to him on the internet every night, i was so hurt, i text my wife told her to forget wanting to be here with me, she was out of order inviting him to my daughters, and she is messing my younger daughters head about, as she saw us kissing and cuddling and she sees her with her new man, she must wonder what the hell is going on. In other words i blew it big time. Next day we text and spoke but was general stuff that was in the morning, she said she would talk that night on facebook, i apologised for my reaction, she was cold said she was upset. I went on facebook, she didnt come on, my mind was telling me she was on the dating site talking to this guy, today is my birthday, i had a text wishing me happy birthday, i repied thankyou. I feel i was so close to getting her thinking about a return and blew it, she as wanting to come this weekend, but reading between the lines she wont, last weekend she said she could have spent it with this guy but wanted to be with me, true i guess, how do i get back to where we was, or wont that happen, help please, im gutted....kevc.

Kevc, How much do you actually know about the degree of involvement with this OM? It is very natural that this should concern you, but this post reads like you were reacting and the reaction escalated.

Reacting very rarely produces a positive outcome. This is one of the reasons detachment has become so important to me.

Didn't your W cited controlling as one of the reasons she left for the women’s shelter? Is it possible the exchange was perceived by her as trying to control her? I am not saying your reaction was unjustified. I am saying there can be more constructive ways to set a boundary.

IMO this is what you were attempting to do. I don’t think it was perceived that way.

IMO, being calm, centering yourself, repeating your short term goals and detachment are all things to work on.

Truegritter recently posted some words he picked up on this board. You may wish to adapt to your sitch: